How much snow is too much? Guelph/London/ Barrie driving?

[SLVRSRFR]

Long uphill driveway. Very hilly subdivision that gets plowed after every other road in the area. I live in Caledon so we get lots of snow.

There was one dumping last year where there was at least half a foot; it was above the bottom of my front bumper. I didn't think I would make it out of the driveway, let alone the subdivision, but I did. Didn't get stuck once, and literally plowed a path for everyone behind me.

If you know what you're doing, anything can be driven in the snow. Use common sense and good judgement, and get snow tires, and you'll be fine.

[Trettiosjuan]

Also depends a lot on the snow. Some powder snow is light as a feather, you could drive through 2 feet of the stuff with wipers on full speed... Then there is heavy wet stuff where 4" will stop not just you, but anything not 4wd AND snow tired...

Into my 3rd season in Sweden, no problems so far with some adaptive driving.



Traction control: just floor it and keep it there, most of the time it will find all available traction...

[Tcoat]

I am just going to save a stock reply to these winter driving threads:
Drive London to Windsor twice every week.
London to Woodstock three times a week.
Have drove through 1/2 to 1 meter of snow where other cars were stuck.
Have never had a single issue.
Oh and lowered 1 3/4 inches.
Good snows and drive properly and you won't either.

And the obligatory repeat post of pic:

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by illmatic_frs

Coming up on my first winter. I have snows ready to be mounted. Will try with and without trac.

Does anyone advise sand/salt bags in the trunk? Or am I ok without?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Sand bags will help not get stuck but if you hit ice or slide it will turn the car into a spinning top due to the weight shift. I personally would not do it since getting stuck is the lesser of the evils to me.

[SLVRSRFR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Sand bags will help not get stuck but if you hit ice or slide it will turn the car into a spinning top due to the weight shift. I personally would not do it since getting stuck is the lesser of the evils to me.

I just kept 2 of my summer tires/rims in the back for the winter with the seats folded down. Added just enough weight to help a bit, but probably not enough to create the effect you described above.

[jvincent]

If you are going to add weight for better traction you'd really want to add it right at the center of mass (longitudinal) of the car so that you wouldn't disrupt the balance.

Of course don't forget, adding weight while helping with grip will also make it harder to stop.

[drewbot]

Originally Posted by illmatic_frs

Coming up on my first winter. I have snows ready to be mounted. Will try with and without trac.

Does anyone advise sand/salt bags in the trunk? Or am I ok without?

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

You are OK without it, a car this balanced doesn't need it

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by jvincent

If you are going to add weight for better traction you'd really want to add it right at the center of mass (longitudinal) of the car so that you wouldn't disrupt the balance.

Of course don't forget, adding weight while helping with grip will also make it harder to stop.

Your second statement referring to shopping distance, if valid, invalidates your first. Why? If you add equal weight without changing balance, the added traction will be nullified by the fact that the whole car will be harder to accelerate, also - in the same way it will be harder to stop.

The reason to add weight in the rear is to change weight distribution, adding traction in the rear without increasing total weight in the same amount.



I don't think it will be vary dangerous to add some weight, after all you are allowed to take rear passengers and use the boot. In rare cases it could make the difference.

In rare cases even added weight in a balanced way may help, e.g. if it helps to compact snow more and, additionally, perhaps allows studs to contact the ice surface below. In the same way it may be helpful to run narrow tires (205).



In a general response, usually there is more room for improvement with better tires (prioritize ice grip and adapt to lower wet grip) and improvement in driving techniques:

- Choose your road position based (also) on available grip

- Never park downhill with reversing the only way out.

- Be very gentle to get moving, slipping your clutch as long as you can't have it engaged without braking traction (<5mph approx)

- Put your rear wheels in the same track as the front when you start moving (be sure to stop where you can start moving in a straight line)

- As pointed out before, once you have momentum, try to keep it. Try to stop at the bottom of a slope if possible.

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Your second statement referring to shopping distance, if valid, invalidates your first. Why? If you add equal weight without changing balance, the added traction will be nullified by the fact that the whole car will be harder to accelerate, also - in the same way it will be harder to stop.

Not necessarily.

When you are moving away from a stop the friction is different than when you are moving and trying to stop.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by jvincent

When you are moving away from a stop the friction is different than when you are moving and trying to stop.

That is true by itself, but this relation it is not changed by adding weight at the centre of gravity.

F=m*a

If you increase weight (m), you need more F (force), here that is, traction, to get the same change in movement (a).

[jvincent]

At at stop, the force vector is predominantly down towards the ground. As a result your coefficient of STATIC friction, which is what comes into play when you are trying to accelerate, will be greater because of the additional mass.

When you are decelerating to a stop, your force vector is at an angle with respect to the ground since there is now a downward and horizontal component. So while you have the same downward component as before, you now have a horizontal component which is greater than it would have been without the extra weight, assuming the same rate of deceleration. Also, you are now dealing with the coefficient of ROLLING friction as opposed to static friction.

[that_guy]

I'd like to remind everyone on here of vehicle ground clearance...

FR-S = 4.9 inches
Corolla = 5.5 inches
RAV4 = 6.3 inches

So basically from a car that no one thinks can be used in winter to those more commonly used, and from the same brand family, you have 0.6 to 1.4 inches difference. That's not a big number.

I drove my first one for two winters with Conti ExtremeWinterContacts and it was awesome in the snow. Didn't matter the depth, the car was a tank. Just remember, odds are you're never the first one on the road, even if they haven't been plowed. Someone else, likely in a Corolla or similar vehicle, has already cleared a light path for you. All you have to do is make up for that extra 0.6 inches with momentum.

Drive according to the conditions and don't put yourself in areas/situations you know any car will struggle. Doing so, you'll not only arrive safely but have fun doing so.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by jvincent

At at stop, the force vector is predominantly down towards the ground. As a result your coefficient of STATIC friction, which is what comes into play when you are trying to accelerate, will be greater because of the additional mass.
.

, more specifically, your static friction will increase as much as the total weight increase and thus as much as the increased force needed to MOVE the car from static (Newtons second law) IF the weight is in the centre of gravity. So you gain NOTHING.



But if the additional weight is over the rear driven wheels, the static friction increases MORE than the inertial force needed to move the car, so you gain some.



Are we in agreement now?