how are you AT Fr-s enjoying the car =)

[Liquidsnake]

That was a good explanation of all the different modes you can turn off, and I am still confused. Lol. Still having a blast anyways........if god were a car he would be an FRS.

[DieDriving]

Originally Posted by smbrm

The MT is one of the best I have ever driven, real crisp tight shifts. But pretty much the rpm/speed range as my current car. Just 6 gears in the same space as 5. But I am actually thinking about the AT after 40 years of MT rowing, just for something different? Would love to hear more about your likes and dislikes for the AT? All modes? I have only tried the paddle shifters in M. Interested in learning more about how it pulls in 5th & 6th on highway uphills or if you have to downshift a cog or two?

I'm in the same boat as you....my worse fear of having an AT is uphill highway/freeway or any uphills....I get used to pull and go....

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by smbrm

...Interested in learning more about how it pulls in 5th & 6th on highway uphills or if you have to downshift a cog or two?

Here's my thoughts on it based on completing a road trip through the NC mountains. I can tell you, you won't be in 6th gear if climbing for any significant distance in the AT. It drops pretty quickly back to 5th and even 4th. 6th is definitely a "cruising gear". No real work gets done there.

Also, there is always a perceived lag between you wanting more pulling power (more torque) and the AT committing to it. I say "perceived" because that's exactly what it is. When you commit the throttle to it, the AT adjusts quickly, much better than any other AT I've driven, but it seems like a lag because you've already committed your mind to it before the car takes action. In a MT you think and do at the same instant so the car feels like its "reading your mind".

With now around 1500 miles on my AT, what I have adjusted to doing is using the paddle shifters as part of that process. If I know I'm going to pass, I now think and "shift" at the same time. Since the paddles always work, it puts those two action back together and the response is much more satisfying for me.

[ZmZMWagon]

When I am finally ready to buy one it'll be an Auto. I'm currently driving a VW DSG and it shifts like a dream. Have any of you ever driven a DSG that you can compare the FRS Auto with as far as gear changes? there is all kinds of info saying some of the components are from the ISF but some dispute this. Thanks.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ZmZMWagon

When I am finally ready to buy one it'll be an Auto. I'm currently driving a VW DSG and it shifts like a dream. Have any of you ever driven a DSG that you can compare the FRS Auto with as far as gear changes? there is all kinds of info saying some of the components are from the ISF but some dispute this. Thanks.

My current car is a DSG GTI. The FRS automatic I drove at a Scion first-drive event had quick shifts (better than other traditional automatics I've driven), but the DSG is slightly quicker and, as you already know, DSG shifts feel seamless when hard on the throttle.

The one thing I didn't like about the FRS automatic was it felt like the torque converter took a while to lock up in 1st gear, whereas in the GTI, the clutch fully engages before 1500 rpm. But that probably has more to do with the GTI's low end torque than anything.

The automatic in the FRS a nice transmission overall and probably smoother in everyday driving, but not quite as good as the DSG in my opinion.

[FRSCoupe]

Hi, what is the RPM cruising 80mph with the automatic?

[ZmZMWagon]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

My current car is a DSG GTI. The FRS automatic I drove at a Scion first-drive event had quick shifts (better than other traditional automatics I've driven), but the DSG is slightly quicker and, as you already know, DSG shifts feel seamless when hard on the throttle.

The one thing I didn't like about the FRS automatic was it felt like the torque converter took a while to lock up in 1st gear, whereas in the GTI, the clutch fully engages before 1500 rpm. But that probably has more to do with the GTI's low end torque than anything.

The automatic in the FRS a nice transmission overall and probably smoother in everyday driving, but not quite as good as the DSG in my opinion.

Good info! Thank you so much.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by FRSCoupe

Hi, what is the RPM cruising 80mph with the automatic?

Its a little under 3K on mine. I didn't capture 80, but here is 55, 60 and 70.

[FRSCoupe]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Its a little under 3K on mine. I didn't capture 80, but here is 55, 60 and 70.

The RPM is impressively low for a 2.0L engine.
The engine wear will be less on the AT. Suitable for long road trips for less noise and gas mileage.

[smbrm]

Great comments Dadhawk

Dadhawk Quote:Here's my thoughts on it based on completing a road trip through the NC mountains. I can tell you, you won't be in 6th gear if climbing for any significant distance in the AT. It drops pretty quickly back to 5th and even 4th. 6th is definitely a "cruising gear". No real work gets done there.

That 6th is a cruising gear would make perfect sense when you look a chart of rpm/speed for the various ratios. MT means lots of shifting in city driving, AT means more shifting on the highway than might seem familiar.

Dadhawk Quote: Also, there is always a perceived lag between you wanting more pulling power (more torque) and the AT committing to it. I say "perceived" because that's exactly what it is. When you commit the throttle to it, the AT adjusts quickly, much better than any other AT I've driven, but it seems like a lag because you've already committed your mind to it before the car takes action. In a MT you think and do at the same instant so the car feels like its "reading your mind".

That sounds to me like what might be the primary difference between AT and MT, in terms of feel: that you do not/cannot get the same sense of connection/throttle response. Sounds like you are saying the AT is better at the sense of connection/ throttle response than a conventional automatic? Is it a lot better or just a little better.

When it shifts in "D" to a new gear, you still get a perceived lull? I am thinking the question is does it drop out of torque converter clutch lockup every time it shifts or once locked the torque converter stays locked in gears 2-6? I think I read somewhere that only 1rst does not have torque converter lock up.

This is one thing I have read about the IS-F 8 speed:

"...A new torque-converter lock-up control was developed that allows for a direct, crisp gear change through the constant lock-up of the torque converter in the second through eighth gears...."

Edmonds Inside line had this to say about the IS-F:

"....If the IS-F's engine seems complicated, get a load of its one transmission offering. This eight-speed automatic is adapted from the tranny in the LS luxo barge.

Leave the shifter in fully automatic mode and you can never quite shake the impression that there are three too many gears in the box. It seems to always be lounging around in 7th on the highway and dithering among its many gears around town. Downshifts are slow to come. When it finally finds a nice low gear, the engine is spinning wildly, the engine note has turned angry and you've got more power than you asked for, plus it arrives later than you wanted it. Use the automatic mode only for traffic jams.

It's better to leave the transmission in manual mode and use the steering-column-mounted shift paddles to choose from the myriad gears. In all but 1st gear, this transmission uses a lock-up clutch to connect the engine and transmission, something like a conventional manual powertrain. When you combine the crisp feeling of engine response that results with tremendously quick upshifts and downshifts (with automatic throttle blips), the complex transmission becomes one of the most entertaining sequential-shift automatics...."

Appreciating that the FRS automatic is a development, has two fewer gears (hopefully leaving out two of the extraneous extras) and probably other improvements, does anything said about feel/perception sound familiar?


Dadhawk Quote: With now around 1500 miles on my AT, what I have adjusted to doing is using the paddle shifters as part of that process. If I know I'm going to pass, I now think and "shift" at the same time. Since the paddles always work, it puts those two action back together and the response is much more satisfying for me.

I noticed the responsiveness with the paddle shifters as a good thing! Did you feel you could get on or just stay on the throttle for a more seemless response when paddle shifting?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by smbrm

Great comments Dadhawk

Thanks.

Originally Posted by smbrm

Here's my thoughts on it based on completing a road trip through the NC mountains. I can tell you, you won't be in 6th gear if climbing for any significant distance in the AT. It drops pretty quickly back to 5th and even 4th. 6th is definitely a "cruising gear". No real work gets done there.

That 6th is a cruising gear would make perfect sense when you look a chart of rpm/speed for the various ratios. MT means lots of shifting in city driving, AT means more shifting on the highway than might seem familiar.

Actually, I don't know that it was more. Any AT (or MT for that matter) with an OD gear is going to have to shift if you are doing much more than cruising. Not a lot of roll-on power in the top gear of most cars.

Originally Posted by smbrm

That sounds to me like what might be the primary difference between AT and MT, in terms of feel: that you do not/cannot get the same sense of connection/throttle response. Sounds like you are saying the AT is better at the sense of connection/ throttle response than a conventional automatic? Is it a lot better or just a little better.

To me it is a lot better than other AT I have driven, but with the exception of a 1982 Z28 this is the first performance car I've owned with an AT. My point was that just its a different experience and if you depend completely on the AT there is not the same immediacy of action with a MT. I don't think the performance is any different, but like you say there is a bit of a lack connection on that piece. In the AT (without the paddles) you Think/Accelerate/Gear Change, in a MT you Think/Gear Change/Accelerate.

Originally Posted by smbrm

When it shifts in "D" to a new gear, you still get a perceived lull? I am thinking the question is does it drop out of torque converter clutch lockup every time it shifts or once locked the torque converter stays locked in gears 2-6? I think I read somewhere that only 1rst does not have torque converter lock up.

Someone more familar with the mechanics would have to answer that question for certain, but no I don't believe it drops out of lockup.

Originally Posted by smbrm

This is one thing I have read about the IS-F 8 speed:

"...A new torque-converter lock-up control was developed that allows for a direct, crisp gear change through the constant lock-up of the torque converter in the second through eighth gears...."

[...]Edmonds Inside line had this to say about the IS-F

Originally Posted by smbrm

Appreciating that the FRS automatic is a development, has two fewer gears (hopefully leaving out two of the extraneous extras) and probably other improvements, does anything said about feel/perception sound familiar?

Sounds about right to me from a non-mechanical standpoint. I do believe they have corrected some of the issues pointed out in the excerpt concerning the fully auto mode though. I have not observed the same "bad" behavior as much.

Originally Posted by smbrm

I noticed the responsiveness with the paddle shifters as a good thing! Did you feel you could get on or just stay on the throttle for a more seemless response when paddle shifting?

Definitely. In any of the modes (Full Auto, Sport or Manual) the paddle shifters provide precise and quick response. In full manual mode it acts just like a MT except for protecting you at the top end and the low end.

I think the key is that when you hit the paddle it does what you want when you want it, not when the computer wants it. For the most part, none of us drive like an standard AT is programmed so it always seems to lag.

When using the paddles, except in the extremes (when shifting will over-rev or under-rev) the auto does exactly what you tell it the instant you tell it.

Standard AT when manually shifted goes:

Manual Shift->Computer holds a committee meeting->Decides Yea, well OK->Slow deliberate shift.

FR-S AT goes:

Manual Shift->Shift. It doesn't have to think because it knows when the shift up/down will not break "the rules "at any given time because it constantly evaluates the situation. You can tell this because of the shift lights which will light up in either direction depending on what is valid.

[smbrm]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Thanks.

In the AT (without the paddles) you Think/Accelerate/Gear Change, in a MT you Think/Gear Change/Accelerate.

Clutch actuation is a pariticative action based time lag, while in the AT we may feel there is waiting because we don't pariticipate in the same way.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sounds about right to me from a non-mechanical standpoint. I do believe they have corrected some of the issues pointed out in the excerpt concerning the fully auto mode though. I have not observed the same "bad" behavior as much.

"...I have not observed the same "bad" behavior as much...." sounds like an improvement, but still some.

You articulate perceptions quite well! Thanks for you insight.

[ahausheer]

FYI: The auto does not lock up in first, second through 6th only. Thats why it felt like it took longer than in the GTI

[Damuskinous]

Question? If i was interested in having the gears change quicker, would upgrading the torque converter solved that?, As well as get me prepped for when I add the tb/or/sc?

Thanks in advance for any advice, first time posting :}