7 days with a Boxster, comparing to my FRS.

[Re~Mix]

Having owned an FR-S for 3.5 years and 50,000 miles, I sold the car with the hopes of moving onto the 987.1 Cayman S platform.

Test drove the Cayman S for an hour the other weekend. Fantastic car, sublime handling and built in the same ethos as the FR-S. It feels familiar because the FR-S was built with the Porsche in mind as a benchmark. That being said, it didn't provide the sense of occasion and thrill I had built up in my mind. The FR-S is really 80% of a cayman already, less some engineering, fancy interior and German quality (doors thunk!).

I ended up not getting a Cayman. I'll have my Porsche some day, but it'll need to be something a bit more special (964, 993, etc.). The Cayman is really good, but perhaps being rough around the edges has its charms.

[WolfpackS2k]

Good luck with that, as the way trends are progressing a new 991 will be cheaper than a lightly used 964 or 993.


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[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Good luck with that, as the way trends are progressing a new 991 will be cheaper than a lightly used 964 or 993.

There's a reason for that. Steering feel sucks on the 991 and the car is bloated both on dimensions and weight. The gearing is long as well; those who row their own won't need to work so much (good and bad). Incoming forced induction from the factory will drive trickier maintenance no doubt. 997 is the 911 to buy right now if you don't want to pay an even higher Porsche tax on older generations.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by FRStock

Engine:
265hp/200tq & ~2900lbs. Guess what? Doesn't feel much faster than the FRS. The torque advantage is noticeable though.

Wait, what? In my experience a 981 2.7L is actually pretty fast, if you rev it out you hit 75mph pretty quickly (higher than any California road speed limit lol). My FR-S on the other hand...I am almost too embarassed to rev it because it doesn't really get going even over 6000rpm.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

There's a reason for that. Steering feel sucks on the 991 and the car is bloated both on dimensions and weight. The gearing is long as well; those who row their own won't need to work so much (good and bad). Incoming forced induction from the factory will drive trickier maintenance no doubt. 997 is the 911 to buy right now if you don't want to pay an even higher Porsche tax on older generations.

Oh I'm in absolute agreement. The EPS is in revolve numb compared to he older hydraulic rack. It's shameful they didn't (couldn't) make it better before release. As if a 1-2% gain in efficiency was worth this sacrifice. No way man...


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[86 South Africa]

Thanks! Nice review.
You can't really compare, but then you can't compare based on price either.

I'd like to see a $50k porsche vs a $25k FRs with $25k worth of mods - now that would be a loooooooot of fun

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Oh I'm in absolute agreement. The EPS is in revolve numb compared to he older hydraulic rack. It's shameful they didn't (couldn't) make it better before release. As if a 1-2% gain in efficiency was worth this sacrifice. No way man..

3-8% efficiency gain according to this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...600032_pf.html

3% is enormous. 8% is ginormous. Hydraulic steering is like the carburetor. Maybe it is superior in some ways, like not needing a computer to adjust, but when looking at the whole equation, there's just no comparison.

EPS is no better or worse than hydraulic for steering feel. There are good and bad systems of both types. Perhaps because EPS is relatively new, more systems struggle in the feel department.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

3-8% efficiency gain according to this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...600032_pf.html

3% is enormous. 8% is ginormous. Hydraulic steering is like the carburetor. Maybe it is superior in some ways, like not needing a computer to adjust, but when looking at the whole equation, there's just no comparison.

EPS is no better or worse than hydraulic for steering feel. There are good and bad systems of both types. Perhaps because EPS is relatively new, more systems struggle in the feel department.

The FR-S/BRZ steering is electric, and I think it's pretty darned good.

[Naco]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

The FR-S/BRZ steering is electric, and I think it's pretty darned good.

Yup. Versus my old EvoX the feel is just about the same and that was hydraulic with a quick ratio.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Naco

Yup. Versus my old EvoX the feel is just about the same and that was hydraulic with a quick ratio.

Yah just goes to support what jsimon7777 mentioned - EPS has a stigma in general, but like any mechanical/hydraulic PS, it just depends on how it's implemented. Kudos to Subaru for getting it right.

[WolfpackS2k]

Good points jsimon. So I guess I can just be mad at BMW and Porsche for apparently not caring enough to make the steering feel as good as older hydraulic racks.

I've read about the various types and the best EPS set up for feel is when you mount the motor on the rack and not the column. Naturally this is the most expensive setup.

Not sure which set up Subaru, BME or Porsche uses. Regardless, the feel in newer Porsche's is shit compared to the last generation.


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[Ganthrithor]

You should try a 987 Cayman... even better car (better steering, better engine note, better interior, etc etc). I'm not a fan of PDK, but that's certainly better in the 981 than it was in the early 987s-- faster, smoother shifts. I'm not a fan of those new interiors though (too many buttons, kind of tacky materials, doors sound flimsier when they close, etc) or the new engine sound (too many artificial pops and growls, not enough howling at the top end). Can't comment on the steering feel as I haven't driven the 981 (was just a passenger for an evening), but everyone I've talked to who's driven both says that the 981/991 steering feel is garbage compared to their older cars (even the 991 GT3, which is said to feel better than their other electric racks).

[brzaapi]

The first time I test drove a 981, I felt it was faster than my 987(s). And, that the engine was much more willing to rev and felt more powerful while doing it. But I thought the EPS was shit, numb and not near as communicative as my 987.


Second test drive was pretty much the same. I loved the acceleration and the rev happy nature of the car. My 987 was close but felt lacking after the test drive. "Oh well", I thought, "my steering is superior".


Then I rode and drove one at a small track. I fell in love with it. My 987 felt lacking in many ways after that. Now, we are talking small differences....but I knew there were definite improvements that my car didn't have. I still thought the steering was kind of numb, but lap times didn't lie. I was much faster in the 981, despite the fact that I had more seat time in my 987.


So I picked up a 981. I would say within 60 days my problem with the EPS was nil. I love the steering of the 981 now. I know exactly what the car is doing, we talk to each other perfectly. I still spend some time in 987s, but I am thrilled with my 981 and I don't miss my 987(s) at all. Okay , sometimes I miss my '06 cause it had a TPC turbo kit on it. But that's not a fair comparison.


Another fun tidbit I noticed after driving the 981 for the last 5 months. I loved my 987(s) on the track and it was fun on the roads. But I didn't have as much fun in my 987 just driving it around town. I preferred my BRZ. It was fun at just about any speed. I think most would agree. Now, I don't know how Porsche made the 981 more fun to drive at sane speeds than my old 987. I mean the car is smoother and technically more refined, how could this be. I don't know, maybe its the seating position. Maybe its the lower front cowl. I don't know, but what I do know is that I get a greater sense of speed(fun) in my 981 than I did my 987.


Another observation. While my wife and I usually AX together, she would take the 987 and I was in my BRZ. While in my BRZ I never missed my 987. But I was 50/50 split on the 981/BRZ. So I guess you could say I enjoy the 981 and BRZ more than I enjoyed either of my 987(s) sans turbo kit.


ANyways, that's my two cents. The 981 chassis is fracking superior to the 987. However, it would be interesting to put a hydraulic unit on the 981. Best of both worlds. But I wont be the guinea pig.


In the end, my thought is the steering of the 981 is something that you will hate on test drives. You wont get over it till at least 60 days of ownership, maybe less. But once you bond with the car it is a fantastic machine. I have never hopped in a car and been able to heel-toe so easily. I am not advocating EPS, but I now don't feel its a problem on my 981 in anyway. It just takes time.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

The first time I test drove a 981, I felt it was faster than my 987(s). And, that the engine was much more willing to rev and felt more powerful while doing it. But I thought the EPS was shit, numb and not near as communicative as my 987.


Second test drive was pretty much the same. I loved the acceleration and the rev happy nature of the car. My 987 was close but felt lacking after the test drive. "Oh well", I thought, "my steering is superior".


Then I rode and drove one at a small track. I fell in love with it. My 987 felt lacking in many ways after that. Now, we are talking small differences....but I knew there were definite improvements that my car didn't have. I still thought the steering was kind of numb, but lap times didn't lie. I was much faster in the 981, despite the fact that I had more seat time in my 987.


So I picked up a 981. I would say within 60 days my problem with the EPS was nil. I love the steering of the 981 now. I know exactly what the car is doing, we talk to each other perfectly. I still spend some time in 987s, but I am thrilled with my 981 and I don't miss my 987(s) at all. Okay , sometimes I miss my '06 cause it had a TPC turbo kit on it. But that's not a fair comparison.


Another fun tidbit I noticed after driving the 981 for the last 5 months. I loved my 987(s) on the track and it was fun on the roads. But I didn't have as much fun in my 987 just driving it around town. I preferred my BRZ. It was fun at just about any speed. I think most would agree. Now, I don't know how Porsche made the 981 more fun to drive at sane speeds than my old 987. I mean the car is smoother and technically more refined, how could this be. I don't know, maybe its the seating position. Maybe its the lower front cowl. I don't know, but what I do know is that I get a greater sense of speed(fun) in my 981 than I did my 987.


Another observation. While my wife and I usually AX together, she would take the 987 and I was in my BRZ. While in my BRZ I never missed my 987. But I was 50/50 split on the 981/BRZ. So I guess you could say I enjoy the 981 and BRZ more than I enjoyed either of my 987(s) sans turbo kit.


ANyways, that's my two cents. The 981 chassis is fracking superior to the 987. However, it would be interesting to put a hydraulic unit on the 981. Best of both worlds. But I wont be the guinea pig.


In the end, my thought is the steering of the 981 is something that you will hate on test drives. You wont get over it till at least 60 days of ownership, maybe less. But once you bond with the car it is a fantastic machine. I have never hopped in a car and been able to heel-toe so easily. I am not advocating EPS, but I now don't feel its a problem on my 981 in anyway. It just takes time.

Nice write-up! Good to hear from someone who's owned all three platforms (981, 987, Twins). I used to have a 987.2 Boxster S and think about going back someday, but the new 981 is definitely enticing too. Glad you're enjoying the new one. Performance and driving feel aside, I think most people would agree they look better than the 987's.