FT-86 / FR-S engine will be Toyota 2l turbo!!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Just bad wording on my part. Special as in the old Subaru boxer engines don't have it. It's something that'll probably be added to the engine by Toyota themselves. The partnership between Toyota and Fuji Heavy Industries is going to result in engines that are developed by Subaru and then further developed by Toyota, with the addition of some of Toyota's own engine tech.

Bad wording or research? AVCS has been on the EJ series for a while now. This is similar to Toyota's VVT-i. Subaru has also used AVLS on EJ motors for a few years now. This is more like Honda's VTEC. The combination of the two is akin to Toyota's VVTL-i or Honda's iVTEC.

The FB20 and FB25 have been confirmed as having AVCS on intake and exhaust cams. (Like Toyota's dual VVT-i)

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Bad wording or research? AVCS has been on the EJ series for a while now. This is similar to Toyota's VVT-i. Subaru has also used AVLS on EJ motors for a few years now. This is more like Honda's VTEC. The combination of the two is akin to Toyota's VVTL-i or Honda's iVTEC.

The FB20 and FB25 have been confirmed as having AVCS on intake and exhaust cams. (Like Toyota's dual VVT-i)

No, I know the subie engines had/have something like it, but they're definitely tuned differently. Subie performance engines use the tech to establish a wide powerband, while Toyota generally tunes their small engines for high rpm performance. Sorry, this is what I get for trying to respond at odd hours of the night due to the time difference of where I live. By special, I meant optimized for high rpm performance, which the use of the "86" name would seem to imply.

I can only assume that since the Subaru version will be AWD and the Toyota version RWD, that the tuning will be different. But if it's true that we wont be getting an n/a version, then my money is on Toyota just tuning rather than using their own systems. Given that the goals of the new engine were efficiency rather than power, if the base engine is turboed, I'd wager on 270hp.

[cyde01]

where's a good facepalm smiley when you need one? i got 50 bucks that says next month's motortrend will be quoting an anonymous source from a web forum that says the FT-86 will have "special" variable valve timing.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Maxim

No, I know the subie engines had/have something like it, but they're definitely tuned differently. Subie performance engines use the tech to establish a wide powerband, while Toyota generally tunes their small engines for high rpm performance. Sorry, this is what I get for trying to respond at odd hours of the night due to the time difference of where I live. By special, I meant optimized for high rpm performance, which the use of the "86" name would seem to imply.

I can only assume that since the Subaru version will be AWD and the Toyota version RWD, that the tuning will be different. But if it's true that we wont be getting an n/a version, then my money is on Toyota just tuning rather than using their own systems. Given that the goals of the new engine were efficiency rather than power, if the base engine is turboed, I'd wager on 270hp.

There is still a lot of speculation there. I still believe that the GT5 version of the FT-86 is within 10-15% of weight and power of the production version.

As for Toyota being more highly tuned than Subaru, this was really only the case with the 2ZZGE and it's (Toyota's only???) use of the VVTL-i system. At least in the last 10 years or so.

The next BIG news that we'll want to hear is the actual motor specs. We've heard rumours of Yamaha involvement, the DS4 direct/port combination injection, talks of what Valvematic (Toyota's next lift system) could do, etc... Not even counting boosted applications.

Real FACTS on the motor next please, Toyota/Subaru!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by cyde01

where's a good facepalm smiley when you need one? i got 50 bucks that says next month's motortrend will be quoting an anonymous source from a web forum that says the FT-86 will have "special" variable valve timing.

It makes me think, when you see 10 members and 100+ guests logged on, that there could be something to that.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It makes me think, when you see 10 members and 100+ guests logged on, that there could be something to that.

As seen not too long ago on another forum

According to the FT86club website, there will be 2 versions. WRX motor and STI motor and it will be badged as a F$&#ing Scion. FAIL!!!!

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dimman

There is still a lot of speculation there. I still believe that the GT5 version of the FT-86 is within 10-15% of weight and power of the production version.

As for Toyota being more highly tuned than Subaru, this was really only the case with the 2ZZGE and it's (Toyota's only???) use of the VVTL-i system. At least in the last 10 years or so.

The next BIG news that we'll want to hear is the actual motor specs. We've heard rumours of Yamaha involvement, the DS4 direct/port combination injection, talks of what Valvematic (Toyota's next lift system) could do, etc... Not even counting boosted applications.

Real FACTS on the motor next please, Toyota/Subaru!

Yes in the last ten years that really has been the only example of it....but that was also about the only sporty vehicle Toyota has even done in the last ten years lol.

I would expect the tuning of the engine to be different in a rear wheel drive application. AWD is harder on transmissions and an elevated redline and ecu tuning differences would not be at all surprising for the Toyota version of the vehicle. Also, since the Toyota version is probably going to be about 200lbs lighter due to the lack of AWD, torque will not be as big of an issue and the car could be made to perform better with some optimization for high rpm.

Obviously this is all speculation in my part...but it's at least logical.

As for the correctness of the gt5 specs on the car....I dont think those specs have much to do with anything. Regardless of how accurate a sim the game is, it frequently gets stats wrong for vehicles, especially when it includes concept cars. If you go back and look at the specs for the rx8 and 350z concept cars that were in gt3 for example, those stats were way off in terms of horsepower and weight when it came to the production cars. Gran Turismo also has a nasty habit of using inaccurate weight figures for many cars, especially when they are Japanese makes.

[70NYD]

who said that the subi version will have a AWD system??
in that chassis being competitively priced?? dont think so..

[Calais]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

who said that the subi version will have a AWD system??
in that chassis being competitively priced?? dont think so..

I've already argued the point that they could do a AWD version and still be competitively priced.

Think about it it's two companies working on one car if one decides that to have AWD it won't raise the price all that much because everything else has been split between the two companies.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Calais

I've already argued the point that they could do a AWD version and still be competitively priced.

Think about it it's two companies working on one car if one decides that to have AWD it won't raise the price all that much because everything else has been split between the two companies.

Actually, from what I've read, MOST of the chassis development is being handled by Subaru, and as they already have a handle on their symmetrical AWD, I doubt it'd raise the price very much. (that, and all of the spy pics of the car doing testing have been of the Subaru version) The platform is supposedly a chopped down version of the Impreza platform (I'd bet money that it's actually going to be a version of the next-gen impreza platform that's in development...). The car will likely be AWD ready out of the box due to this. I know there's some concern that the rear wheel drive layout with the boxer engine extremely low in the chassis could compromise this, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Regardless of the logos we've seen, with FT-86 featured in the actual name, I would still be completely unsurprised if the FT-86 ends up being the next-gen Celica. With the platform likely AWD-ready, Subaru could release a new version of the 22B, and Toyota could release a Celica and a new GT-Four.

Also, Subaru dropped out of the WRC recently, citing the new rules as the deciding factor, but the company is known for it's WRC cars. With the WRX increasingly becoming a larger, more refined car (too damn SOFT!), the FT-86 might be Subaru's solution for getting back into WRC. It's also possible that Toyota could use the platform and get back into the fray with a GT-Four....

That's groundless speculation on my part of course...but I still would not be surprised. The new WRC rules favor smaller vehicles, and this IS a smaller vehicle. If we start hearing rumors of a smaller 1.6L turbo boxer, then I think we can pretty much assume this is the case. (The 2013 WRC rules call for a 1600cc turbocharged engine)

I really do hope that a version of the FT-86 eventually finds it's way into the WRC though, as it's by far my favorite type of racing.

Speaking of....HAS anybody heard of a 1.6L version of Subaru's new engine? Everybody and their grandma is downsizing engines...

[Maxim]

Well, **** me sideways, look what I found!

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...e-ar92108.html

A new, turbocharged 1.6L boxer engine from Subaru, co-developed with COSWORTH! Being designed to help Subaru get back into Rally racing.

How would you guys feel if a version of THAT engine wound up in the FT-86?

[Dragonitti]

1.6L? To small for me.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

1.6L? To small for me.

Yeah, agreed. But we are definitely going to be getting turbo 1.6L engines in cars in the future....both regular cars and performance ones, because of the new WRC regs.

If they could squeeze 200hp outta a turbo 1.6 and make it sound sexy, I'd be fine with that. If anybody can, it's Cosworth.

Now I'm VERY curious about whether the FT-86 will really end up being called a Celica....

[OldSkoolToys]

Coming out as a Scion kinda defeats its ability to be called a Celica.