LSAT Advice

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by kch

It's really hard to explain, but hard work alone isn't always enough in law school. It's all about knowing the test--that is, being able to read a hypo and figure out what concepts the prof is really asking about. You can't write a good essay if you miss the little clues.

Most profs, especially in 1L year, will be pretty good at telling you in advance what their tests are like. The day they explain the exam is probably the most important single day of class. See if you can find exams from previous years to review. Share them with some of your friends, make outlines of your answer, and compare responses. (On a side note, while some people try to be super-competitive in 1L year, they're usually dbags who won't do as well as they expected. Don't be afraid to share notes or essays with your study group).

Some schools will have unofficial, student-made collections of outlines and notes from prior years. Definitely check them out, but don't rely on them--you have no idea how good or bad their notes are. Also, I found commercial outlines to be largely useless. I think the only thing I ended up using was a set of flashcards for 1L contracts.

When preparing for class (and you have to--don't skip your reading, kids), make sure you can always answer the "why." Particularly for civpro, get in the habit of always citing your authority for your answers in class. By that I mean if the prof is asking about choice of law, make sure you can point directly to § 1652, Erie, Byrd, Gasperini, etc., as appropriate. This is good practice for the exam and beyond.

As far as college performance vs. law school...that's tough to answer. I know there were a lot of very smart people with great undergrad GPAs who came into 1L year expecting to kick ass. Many of them didn't, and it was a huge blow to their egos. It's not that they weren't smart, though, and I can't identify a particular reason why they sucked at law school. Meanwhile, I failed out of undergrad twice and had a crappy GPA (undiagnosed ADHD), but was top 10% and on law review. *shrug*

First. Good luck on test day.

Second I mirror the comments above. I however found commercial outlines somewhat helpful. Old tests are immensely important as well as friends to study with. As for class readings, I would argue time could be better spent outlining the whole year and focusing on what the prof focuses on, which I'd say mirrors the exam more often than not (some professors like to surprise you). Don't wait to yhe end to outline... you will not have enough time. At least for me, unlike u Der grad where I could pick up concepts extremely quickly, law school requires an exceptional time commitment to master the material.

Finally, as discussed above, exams are not only about mastering material, but also spotting issues and the process of analyzing those issues thoroughly. The mastery of the material only gives you the tools to spot those issues, you have to take it to the next level.

[SkiRideDrive]

Oh... and unless the prof grades you on cold calling (which exactly zero of mine did) do not worry about being called on. Worst thing can happen is a bruised ego. Focus on the exams, that's what matters. Lots of students would prep so much each day just cuz they might get called on, and we're then overwhelmed at the end of the year because they didn't begin outlining g at the expense of class prep. The ability to say "I am not fully prepared enough to intelligrntly Contribute to this discussion" is more valuable than you think.

[kch]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

Oh... and unless the prof grades you on cold calling (which exactly zero of mine did) do not worry about being called on. Worst thing can happen is a bruised ego. Focus on the exams, that's what matters. Lots of students would prep so much each day just cuz they might get called on, and we're then overwhelmed at the end of the year because they didn't begin outlining g at the expense of class prep. The ability to say "I am not fully prepared enough to intelligrntly Contribute to this discussion" is more valuable than you think.

There's some truth in that for sure. But my class prep was generally outlining anyway, so it didn't slow me down. I also found that I was better able to follow along in class if I had done the reading.

That being said, I did almost no reading in 2L/3L years. I got super lazy. I only read for classes with a particular prof who was aggressive, fast-moving, and did frequent cold-calls. They were also particularly difficult classes (busorgs and securities reg). Most of my time was either dedicated to LR or spent playing pingpong in the basement.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

First. Good luck on test day.

Second I mirror the comments above. I however found commercial outlines somewhat helpful. Old tests are immensely important as well as friends to study with. As for class readings, I would argue time could be better spent outlining the whole year and focusing on what the prof focuses on, which I'd say mirrors the exam more often than not (some professors like to surprise you). Don't wait to yhe end to outline... you will not have enough time. At least for me, unlike u Der grad where I could pick up concepts extremely quickly, law school requires an exceptional time commitment to master the material.

Finally, as discussed above, exams are not only about mastering material, but also spotting issues and the process of analyzing those issues thoroughly. The mastery of the material only gives you the tools to spot those issues, you have to take it to the next level.

I see you're in San Diego, did you go to LS in so cal?
How hard was it to find a job in the area? Would love to hear more about this because this is most likely where i'd like to practice eventually.

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

I see you're in San Diego, did you go to LS in so cal?
How hard was it to find a job in the area? Would love to hear more about this because this is most likely where i'd like to practice eventually.

I went to Duke in North Carolina. Then I ended up in Irvine at a larger firm focusing on patent law. After a year I finally escaped and landed an awesome gig in-house doing patent prosecution. I can't comment on general legal jobs, but the opportunities in IP aren't bad in this area.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

I went to Duke in North Carolina. Then I ended up in Irvine at a larger firm focusing on patent law. After a year I finally escaped and landed an awesome gig in-house doing patent prosecution. I can't comment on general legal jobs, but the opportunities in IP aren't bad in this area.

Thanks man, IP is of interest to me as I'm working for a tech firm currently / they've got some serious issues that are being dealt with.

[kch]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Thanks everyone for the advice and help. I will be taking the test on Saturday so wish me luck ha ha.

How'd it go? Have your score yet?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by kch

How'd it go? Have your score yet?

Won't have the scores until the 28th I believe, at least according to LSAC. The test itself went pretty well. Started getting hard to stay vigilant towards the end though and of course that's when the logic games appeared for me. Nonetheless I fell pretty confident. Thanks for all your advice guys!

[KL]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Won't have the scores until the 28th I believe, at least according to LSAC. The test itself went pretty well. Started getting hard to stay vigilant towards the end though and of course that's when the logic games appeared for me. Nonetheless I fell pretty confident. Thanks for all your advice guys!

Got my score emailed last night, log into LSAC and check.

[SkiRideDrive]

I remember the day my score was released. I had a browser add on that would refresh the lsac page every 10 seconds and had it next to me while doing work. Yea...

[kch]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

I remember the day my score was released. I had a browser add on that would refresh the lsac page every 10 seconds and had it next to me while doing work. Yea...

Oh geez I was bad about my bar results. I swore I wouldn't be that guy who constantly refreshes the state bar results page. Unfortunately, there was a hit counter at the bottom of the page. Consequently, I refreshed it a couple of times to see how many other people were refreshing the page. And then I kept refreshing. And then I couldn't stop.

[Flow]

Too late to help the OP, but I found Minesweeper to be a great way to prep for the logic section, and a good break from questions. Also totally agree with the suggestion to take a break for a week before the exam. Hell, make sure you take enough of a break each day to get your mind off of the exam. Same thing goes for the bar exam. Being mentally rested is better than doing another couple (hundred) practice questions.

Oh, and for those contemplating law school, don't go unless you want to actually practice law and have a good idea what you want to do. And, since you probably won't know the answer to that question until you've got some real experience with the legal profession and the world, live life, try different things, and figure out if its right for you. Get an internship, work as a paralegal, whatever. The downside of being wrong is a pretty massive debt burden that will lock you into a certain life, for a long time, just to repay it. And, the economics are just getting poorer and poorer.

On the other hand, I never ever thought I would be a lawyer. But, after working for 7 yrs, and experiencing the world, I found something I was truly fascinated by, and now I love what I do.

[SkiRideDrive]

Originally Posted by Flow

Too late to help the OP, but I found Minesweeper to be a great way to prep for the logic section, and a good break from questions. Also totally agree with the suggestion to take a break for a week before the exam. Hell, make sure you take enough of a break each day to get your mind off of the exam. Same thing goes for the bar exam. Being mentally rested is better than doing another couple (hundred) practice questions.

Oh, and for those contemplating law school, don't go unless you want to actually practice law and have a good idea what you want to do. And, since you probably won't know the answer to that question until you've got some real experience with the legal profession and the world, live life, try different things, and figure out if its right for you. Get an internship, work as a paralegal, whatever. The downside of being wrong is a pretty massive debt burden that will lock you into a certain life, for a long time, just to repay it. And, the economics are just getting poorer and poorer.

On the other hand, I never ever thought I would be a lawyer. But, after working for 7 yrs, and experiencing the world, I found something I was truly fascinated by, and now I love what I do.

Excellent advice.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by KL

Got my score emailed last night, log into LSAC and check.

Originally Posted by Flow

Too late to help the OP, but I found Minesweeper to be a great way to prep for the logic section, and a good break from questions. Also totally agree with the suggestion to take a break for a week before the exam. Hell, make sure you take enough of a break each day to get your mind off of the exam. Same thing goes for the bar exam. Being mentally rested is better than doing another couple (hundred) practice questions.

Oh, and for those contemplating law school, don't go unless you want to actually practice law and have a good idea what you want to do. And, since you probably won't know the answer to that question until you've got some real experience with the legal profession and the world, live life, try different things, and figure out if its right for you. Get an internship, work as a paralegal, whatever. The downside of being wrong is a pretty massive debt burden that will lock you into a certain life, for a long time, just to repay it. And, the economics are just getting poorer and poorer.

On the other hand, I never ever thought I would be a lawyer. But, after working for 7 yrs, and experiencing the world, I found something I was truly fascinated by, and now I love what I do.

Sorry guys I completely forgot to come back on here and thank everyone. The test when great, even though my head was in excruciating pain lol. I ended up getting a 162 which I am pretty content with. Thanks again everyone for all your help