So how many have to die before they...

[Locust]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

In group 2 they give us a check out ride at start of event. The instructor I got is telling me to brake and lift hundreds of feet before even close to necessary. And that's starting on first lap before I'm even getting up to speed. Maybe he had a bad experience?

That sounds more like an instructor that has trouble adapting to the braking/speed/weight differences between vehicles.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Locust

That sounds more like an instructor that has trouble adapting to the braking/speed/weight differences between vehicles.

Almost everyone knows how to go fast in a straight line. If I'm right seating in a car, it's because the driver wants to learn how to turn. They don't need to be going fast down the straight to learn how to turn.

Unless I'm being compensated to take that risk, I would be doing the same thing.

[jvincent]

As a new guy to the track I certainly appreciate the instruction I have received. Both of the groups I lap with are very safety conscious and make a particular point that if you don't follow the rules that you will be pulled off the track.

When riding with an instructor the first session of the day is done under yellow so there is no passing at all. As such the pace is very slow and it lets the instructors get a feel for the students' abilities.

I know from listening to the instructors talk at lunch that they have all had their fare share of scary rides.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Track days are viewed so safely that you can now buy insurance for your vehicle when attending an HPDE in case you damage your car. HINT: Insurance companies don't offer coverage for stuff they are going to lose money on.

Another false comparison and another case in which you've displayed to the audience you're lack of understanding about things.

Insurance companies will insure damn near anything. If you think they only insure things "because they are safe" you're high.

Next thing you're going to tell me about this new Steakhouse you discovered called Jack in the Box.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

I've seen plenty of people get booted. Just depends on the group.

Unfortunately, you have to actually run with a group to really get an idea if they are run in a way you like. Sometimes you get wind of a group's reputation ahead of time, but it's hard to take other people's opinions too seriously since we all have different levels of acceptance.

But, pretty much all the west coast groups are quite good at booting people.

I too will boot and have done so before.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by jvincent

As a new guy to the track I certainly appreciate the instruction I have received. Both of the groups I lap with are very safety conscious and make a particular point that if you don't follow the rules that you will be pulled off the track.

When riding with an instructor the first session of the day is done under yellow so there is no passing at all. As such the pace is very slow and it lets the instructors get a feel for the students' abilities.

I know from listening to the instructors talk at lunch that they have all had their fare share of scary rides.

Some of the scariest rides I've had have been at very low (relatively speaking) speeds. The worst so far was a driver that slammed the brakes at the apex of a corner with a car lining up behind us for a pass (ie extremely close). That lap was scarier than actually going into an Armco wall at 80-90km/h at about a 40* angle.

I'm way more comfortable at 90% with a driver that knows proper etiquette and has good car control than someone that doesn't know any of that at 50%.

[rice_classic]

I wonder how much of this bad behavior that we are persecuting so fervently is supported by threads on forums (such as this) that promote the posting of a "fastest lap time".

Isn't that encouraging folks to do the very thing we are lamenting? Yet many stand up and say, "these idiots shouldn't be let out on track and the clubs should send them home!"

They're probably on their own forums, replying in those threads about "Post up your fastest lap time!"

There's culpability in the community as well, is all I'm saying.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Another false comparison and another case in which you've displayed to the audience you're lack of understanding about things.

Insurance companies will insure damn near anything. If you think they only insure things "because they are safe" you're high.

Next thing you're going to tell me about this new Steakhouse you discovered called Jack in the Box.

Yeah, we already addressed that chief.

Thankfully you can organize your own track days and impose any restrictions you deem necessary, and those of us with a bit higher risk tolerance won't have to attend.

[PWBRZ]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I wonder how much of this bad behavior that we are persecuting so fervently is supported by threads on forums (such as this) that promote the posting of a "fastest lap time".

Though it's quite subjective, I think it would be a better idea would be to promote the idea of 'cleanest lap' or something like that. The Buttonwillow HPDE instructors I've been with have mentioned this.

[jmimac351]

We encourage people to Be Safe, and Have Fun.

People have their own definition for what their "fun" is. For some people it's a Cup car, for others it's driving a slow car fast.

As long as they are being safe, I don't have an opinion about their definition.

If you're being safe and having fun, it ends up being a great track day.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by PWBRZ

Though it's quite subjective, I think it would be a better idea would be to promote the idea of 'cleanest lap' or something like that. The Buttonwillow HPDE instructors I've been with have mentioned this.

Good suggestions, or for me? I use a transponder so I can track consistency. Typically if I'm not hung up in traffic, I can stay with in a 1sec delta on a 1:35 lap...............in other words, still to far off from where I'd like to be.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I wonder how much of this bad behavior that we are persecuting so fervently is supported by threads on forums (such as this) that promote the posting of a "fastest lap time".

Isn't that encouraging folks to do the very thing we are lamenting? Yet many stand up and say, "these idiots shouldn't be let out on track and the clubs should send them home!"

They're probably on their own forums, replying in those threads about "Post up your fastest lap time!"

There's culpability in the community as well, is all I'm saying.

I think 99.99% of the forum isn't chasing that fastest lap time. I can count less than 5 people, including myself, that are truly doing that.

Are you?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I wonder how much of this bad behavior that we are persecuting so fervently is supported by threads on forums (such as this) that promote the posting of a "fastest lap time".

Isn't that encouraging folks to do the very thing we are lamenting? Yet many stand up and say, "these idiots shouldn't be let out on track and the clubs should send them home!"

They're probably on their own forums, replying in those threads about "Post up your fastest lap time!"

There's culpability in the community as well, is all I'm saying.

There's a big difference between seasoned drivers aiming for fast laps and people with little experience ripping around at very fast speeds.

Most HPDE and school environments discourage (or flat out don't allow) the use of lap timers.

There's also a fair number of people competing in time attack events, which are a different environment again.

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

So why are cars with 500hp allowed to go flying around a race track at lapping days with nothing but a 3-point seat belt and a helmet?

Because 'Murica.




In all seriousness. I believe they are allowed because they expect all of the participants to use common sense and be cautious. Unfortunately, in 'Mureca, that's never the case but we all do seem to have hind-sight.