I totally bought the wrong car

[WolfpackS2k]

Dude...

There's nothing remotely amazing about the FA20. Nothing.


OP, Ford just came out with a factory power boost for the Focus ST. Is it something that could be retroactively applied to your car?

[industrial]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Dude...

There's nothing remotely amazing about the FA20. Nothing.


OP, Ford just came out with a factory power boost for the Focus ST. Is it something that could be retroactively applied to your car?

Yeah, you can take just about any other motor and double the output with bolt-ons with minimal issues. Nothing to see here.

[IrishTG]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Dude...

There's nothing remotely amazing about the FA20. Nothing.


OP, Ford just came out with a factory power boost for the Focus ST. Is it something that could be retroactively applied to your car?

The factory power thing is just a Mountune pack and you were always able to buy it, they are just offering it as sales time now as far as I know. If I wanted to do that I could, but I would have to buy it and pay a Ford dealer to install it to maintain my warranty. I asked 3 of my local dealers about it and none seemed to know anything about it and they all said it would void my warranty, blah, blah, blah. It's a scenario I'm just not really looking to get into because I don't want to fight with the service department. Having worked in dealer service as a tech for years when I was younger, I know how much of a headache that can be.

It's also quite expensive and to the best of my knowledge, reduces your warranty to a total of 3yr/36k miles, wiping out the 5yr/60kmi completely, though I could be mistaken. I know for a fact the approved Ford Performance parts do this, but the Mountune stuff may be different now that it is offered as an option when you buy (if I'm understanding the info correctly). No matter what, as I said a few times, I'm not interested in more power and I really couldn't care less about straightline speed or breaking lap records. It's about the dynamics of the drive, the feeling it gives you, and I don't get that from the Focus ST and no amount of power increase is going to do it because I'm not trying to get into, or build, a drag car.

On the subject of drag cars, if that's what I really wanted, I wouldn't buy one of the twins, or any hot hatch, I would buy a Mustang, or Camaro, or a used Vette, etc. I know some people get a kick out of taking a small hot hatch and turning it into a drag strip monster, but I'm not one. I don't see the point in taking a sporty hatch with decent handling and moderate power and spending lord only knows how much to put down 12s when you can buy a car that runs 12s stock. Sure, the car that does it stock is more expensive so you may have to hold off on the mods, but once you do you will spend the same amount of mod money and instead of finally achieve 12s, you'll be running 10s.

I dunno, $25k car + $10+k in mods to achieve what a $32-33k car can do stock doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Not that I don't like modding, it's just that I prefer to mod for the cars intended purpose. The BRZ, for example - I would mod it to be a better handling car and any power adds would be directly related, and proportional, to making more out of the handling mods.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by IrishTG

I dunno, $25k car + $10+k in mods to achieve what a $32-33k car can do stock doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Not that I don't like modding, it's just that I prefer to mod for the cars intended purpose. The BRZ, for example - I would mod it to be a better handling car and any power adds would be directly related, and proportional, to making more out of the handling mods.

I'm not going to go into detail but if you think any stock 32-33k car (Honda Accord V6? STI?) can "hang" with a brz with 10k, you are crazy. 300whp and 2500lb is a better power to weight ratio than the new Mustang GT. Nevermind what a BRZ at 2500lbs, suspension mods, and real tires feels like in anything other than a straight line. And my 10k number includes much more than just FI/power stuff. This car is pretty cheap to mod.


I don't want to go way off topic so...my little brother had a Focus ST. I got to drive it a lot. It was a fun car and I'm seriously thinking about selling my BRZ for one. Before you jump the gun, it's because my family is growing and I need room for 2 kids and my wife is taking my forester. The ST (or WRX or Accord V6, so many options) seems like the perfect family car for me.

[iJeff]

Originally Posted by industrial

I'm not going to go into detail but if you think any stock 32-33k car (Honda Accord V6? STI?) can "hang" with a brz with 10k, you are crazy. 300whp and 2500lb is a better power to weight ratio than the new Mustang GT. Nevermind what a BRZ at 2500lbs, suspension mods, and real tires feels like in anything other than a straight line. And my 10k number includes much more than just FI/power stuff. This car is pretty cheap to mod.


I don't want to go way off topic so...my little brother had a Focus ST. I got to drive it a lot. It was a fun car and I'm seriously thinking about selling my BRZ for one. Before you jump the gun, it's because my family is growing and I need room for 2 kids and my wife is taking my forester. The ST seems like the perfect family car for me.

*cough* weighs more around 2760 lbs before the FI.

[Timmy_Jones]

Great writeup – we had surprisingly similar stories. I started out driving both the FoST and FiST and loved them both, drove a BRZ and then an FRS and liked them more. The FiST was the car I wanted, dealership was an absolute joke and tried to steal from me, went back to Toyota and paid cash for the FR-S on a great deal. A year later, best things I have done for the car are Eibach Springs and the Tomei Header/Tune. I am in absolute love. Hope you can make the switch soon.

[IrishTG]

Originally Posted by industrial

I'm not going to go into detail but if you think any stock 32-33k car (Honda Accord V6? STI?) can "hang" with a brz with 10k, you are crazy. 300whp and 2500lb is a better power to weight ratio than the new Mustang GT. Nevermind what a BRZ at 2500lbs, suspension mods, and real tires feels like in anything other than a straight line. And my 10k number includes much more than just FI/power stuff. This car is pretty cheap to mod.


I don't want to go way off topic so...my little brother had a Focus ST. I got to drive it a lot. It was a fun car and I'm seriously thinking about selling my BRZ for one. Before you jump the gun, it's because my family is growing and I need room for 2 kids and my wife is taking my forester. The ST (or WRX or Accord V6, so many options) seems like the perfect family car for me.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I'm talking about taking cars never intended to be drag strip monsters and modding them to be that. That isn't my thing and I wouldn't spend money on doing such.

Mustang GT, stock, can hit 12.8 in the quarter and run 0-60 in 4.4 seconds (professionally driven with hard launches, but still, it can do it). Add $10k to that and it could be certifiably crazy fast. By comparison, take the Focus ST with its stock 14.5ish quarter and ~6 sec 0-60 throw $10k at it and it still might not match the stock GT's times.

All I'm saying is that when I mod, I mod for the cars purpose, and the purpose of a hot hatch, or the twins, really isn't to be a drag monster. The Accord V6 isn't exactly a car I'm using for comparison, but I know that a BRZ with $10k isn't going to be beat by a V6 Accord, however considering the Accord is just a quick family car, I would certainly hope that's the case.

I have 0 problem modding a car and I do it myself, I just don't take cars never intended to be drag cars and mod them to attempt being drag cars. It isn't my thing, but it is a thing others enjoy and they are welcome to do so. The whole point of what I'm saying is that adding power to my ST isn't going to make me fall in love with it because power and straight line isn't my problem with it.

[industrial]

Originally Posted by IrishTG

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I'm talking about taking cars never intended to be drag strip monsters and modding them to be that. That isn't my thing and I wouldn't spend money on doing such.

Mustang GT, stock, can hit 12.8 in the quarter and run 0-60 in 4.4 seconds (professionally driven with hard launches, but still, it can do it). Add $10k to that and it could be certifiably crazy fast. By comparison, take the Focus ST with its stock 14.5ish quarter and ~6 sec 0-60 throw $10k at it and it still might not match the stock GT's times.

All I'm saying is that when I mod, I mod for the cars purpose, and the purpose of a hot hatch, or the twins, really isn't to be a drag monster. The Accord V6 isn't exactly a car I'm using for comparison, but I know that a BRZ with $10k isn't going to be beat by a V6 Accord, however considering the Accord is just a quick family car, I would certainly hope that's the case.

I have 0 problem modding a car and I do it myself, I just don't take cars never intended to be drag cars and mod them to attempt being drag cars. It isn't my thing, but it is a thing others enjoy and they are welcome to do so. The whole point of what I'm saying is that adding power to my ST isn't going to make me fall in love with it because power and straight line isn't my problem with it.

Hey no worries. Who said anything about drag strips and drag cars though? I just get annoyed at the comment that a v6 accord can beat a car X in a straight line therefore car X is slow. I spent the majority of my money on suspension, chassis, and weight reduction. Your mind is in the right place with this car.

[MisterSheep]

I was considered almost the same cars you did OP except the civic. I test drove, s2000, evo 8, evo 10, 2006 STi, 2009 WRX hatch, Focus ST, GTI, 2014 5.0 Mustang, 2013 Camaro SS, 2013 Genesis coupe, 370z, e46 m3, and last but not least the frs.

What I learned;

Mustang and camaro are fast and it was fun to mash the gas pedal... but that was about it. Nothing else turned me on to them. I did prefer the camaro over the mustang though.

Genesis Coupe had great power but felt even heavier than the 370z and the 370z performed way better. I probably would have saved up for the 370z but TBH I thought they were ugly (inside and out) and only had 2 seats.

Evo 8 was such an awesome fast car to drive! I wish I bought it but they were asking wayyyyy too much for it, and my old 03 civic had a better interior than that thing (seats are an exception). 35k for a 2006 evo 8 with 30k miles, not justifying the price for . And I had my 2003 wrx and was looking for something different.

Evo X felt slower than the 8 I believe due to the weight and it just seemed to continue to understeer. It also felt very... big while driving it. too expensive. 40k for one new off the lot.. no thanks.

Focus ST and GTI were fun cars but I just couldn't get over the fact of the FWD. They're practical and perform well for what they are.

When I drove the s2000 it was such an amazing driving experience. Very small, very nible, and quick. Shifter felt great driving feel was phenominal. The only reasons I didn't get one was; Its a convertible (hate convertibles) and it had only 2 seats.

E46 M3 was by far the greatest car out of the whole lot. It drove nice. Great driving feel, with great power as well. Felt bigger than the s2000 (expected) but it felt quite as nimble. I was about to pull the trigger on one of these but I thought I would wait and if I didnt like anything else I was going to go back to this. Cons were higher mileage, 80k, and price was roughly 23-25k for high mileage car..

I drove the frs, loved it over all of them. Price was right and bought it right then and there.

still have No Ragrets.

[IrishTG]

Originally Posted by industrial

Hey no worries. Who said anything about drag strips and drag cars though? I just get annoyed at the comment that a v6 accord can beat a car X in a straight line therefore car X is slow. I spent the majority of my money on suspension, chassis, and weight reduction. Your mind is in the right place with this car.

Yeah man, all good. I'm with you and I can't stand those comparisons either. A V6 Camry or Accord is faster than the twins? Oh well, big deal. I'm pretty sure they keep up with, or might even be faster than, the Focus ST too. I once rented a minivan to move some stuff across the country because it was cheaper and more comfortable than a U-Haul and that thing was insanely quick for such a huge and heavy vehicle.

[Razz]

Your kids will out grow the BRZ in 11 months.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by industrial

Yeah, you can take just about any other motor and double the output with bolt-ons with minimal issues. Nothing to see here.

Most "performance" engines you can. If your definition of bolt on's consists of FI kits.

Originally Posted by industrial

I'm not going to go into detail but if you think any stock 32-33k car (Honda Accord V6? STI?) can "hang" with a brz with 10k, you are crazy. 300whp and 2500lb is a better power to weight ratio than the new Mustang GT. Nevermind what a BRZ at 2500lbs, suspension mods, and real tires feels like in anything other than a straight line. And my 10k number includes much more than just FI/power stuff. This car is pretty cheap to mod.


I don't want to go way off topic so...my little brother had a Focus ST. I got to drive it a lot. It was a fun car and I'm seriously thinking about selling my BRZ for one. Before you jump the gun, it's because my family is growing and I need room for 2 kids and my wife is taking my forester. The ST (or WRX or Accord V6, so many options) seems like the perfect family car for me.

What does this have to do with anything? Take any of those cars and put the same amount of money into them and they would still destroy a twin in the straights. The point is these cars weren't meant for straight line speed and that's fine, no need to get all upset when someone mentions that they're not great performers in that area. You wouldn't judge a semi for not handling well would you? No, because that's not what it was built for, it was built to haul heavy ass shit...

[industrial]

Originally Posted by raven1231

Most "performance" engines you can. If your definition of bolt on's consists of FI kits.

Ok, I'll play. Which engines produced today can you bolt on double the power without touching the internals and go legitimately beat on trackdays? There are lots of completely bolt on FI kits for this car. Why wouldn't that be considered a bolt on? Installing a supercharger on this car is about as hard as installing a rotated mount turbo on a STI. I didn't even have to touch the fuel system (though I did).

Originally Posted by raven1231

What does this have to do with anything? Take any of those cars and put the same amount of money into them and they would still destroy a twin in the straights. The point is these cars weren't meant for straight line speed and that's fine, no need to get all upset when someone mentions that they're not great performers in that area. You wouldn't judge a semi for not handling well would you? No, because that's not what it was built for, it was built to haul heavy ass shit...

What I said, it wasn't spoken in a vacuum. It was said in context of a continuing dialogue. You can't FOX NEWS me and just take a statement out of the context of which it was spoken, pick a straw man, and proceed to win the argument you just crafted.

[Mr_Hann]

Originally Posted by IrishTG

Just wanted to add something about the speed. I used to ride liter bikes off an on, and when I realized how insanely impractical it was on the street, I dropped to an SV650 which was still pretty damned quick off the jump and had good V-Twin passing power, but didn't have much top end at all and died off at about 125. Even with that, I realized that tight, technical cornering was my love and while the SV was a strong handler, it was still faster than I really needed so I traded it in and got a DRZ400SM supermoto. The DRZ was 0-60 in about 5.5-6 seconds (400cc single) and had a top speed of about 98mph (indicated!) with me on it. With a tailwind and a downgrade I broke 100 a couple times... lol. Anyway, that was my favorite bike EVER. I didn't care how slow it was and how poorly it did on the highway with no passing power, it was a monster in the corners when I got good rubber on it and adjusted the suspension to my weight and that is what gave me my thrills. I had no real power to correct mistakes so you had to ride it into the turn, and out of the turn, the RIGHT way and that is what made it enjoyable to me.

In short, my history on bikes has given me more speed than I could ever really get on a car I could actually afford. Modern Mustang GTs and Camaro SS's are close, but still not all the way there and the sensation isn't the same in a car as it is on a bike. I've been there, done that, and I realize that I don't need it to have fun because, to use the old cliche, driving a slow car/bike fast is more fun than a fast car/bike slow. Not to mention, driving a slower car teaches you more about technique and doing it the right way because you can't overcome bad cornering with excessive straight line power.

Which liter bike did you have?

Originally Posted by IrishTG

I actually thought about it before buying the FoST, but there wasn't a single dealer in my area that had one so I never even got to drive one. Something tells me if I had, I probably would have bought one of them instead. At this point, I don't think I'd go that way because I enjoyed the BRZ too much.

When I finished my test drives of the FoST I liked it, but I didn't go home and think about driving it again constantly before I actually signed the papers. With the BRZ, I can't stop thinking about the next time I'll get to drive one and how I can get my paws on one quicker. It just clicked with me in a way that nothing else has, car-wise, in a long time. I suppose it's possible the FiST could give me the same feeling, but I think it would be a long shot.

I did try the FiST, and while it was cool, it was definitely lacking something. The feeling of the controls were vague, the interior doesn't make sense, the A and C pillars don't make sense. The connection wasn't there. But it's got a nice power band, very pleasant note, and pretty quiet for the highway. Even more quiet than the GTI I test drove. If Subaru did not exist, I would have bought one.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh definitely.

I have publicly dismissed modern Toyota, stating that I would never have thought to buy one built in my lifetime.

I don't Toyota deserves any credit for this car. I think they contributed direct injection, and some motor stuff. And the worst part of this car is...?