Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[Rampage]

MT did not have much choice other than testing the Club or the GT against the BRZ because there are almost no Sports being imported yet. But even if they had tested the BRZ against the >$26K Sport there is no proof that the BRZ would have prevailed. The Sport does not have LSD or Brembos or BBS but it also does not have the entertainment center and other features that add weight. It does have the same engine and HP/TQ. It will most likely be the lightest MX-5 available. LSD and Brembo arguably may make little difference on a track with a 2250LB/151HP car. We will have to wait for test data to see.

I expect that many weekend warriors/track addicts will start with the Sport as a basis for their toys. It will be the blank canvas on which they will add coilovers, mechanical LSD,exhaust, tune and ungraded brakes or pads.

I really do not understand the hate and angst. This is a win/win for anyone who loves small bore performance cars. If you like a flyweight and can deal with a convertible then you have the MX-5 option. If you want a metal roof over your head at all times then take the bantamweight FR-S/BRZ. Either way you cannot lose.

[DarkSunrise]

Too much complaining about the test IMO. Objectively the results speak for themselves - an ND Club Miata is slightly faster than a Series Blue BRZ in all metrics. Lap times, 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. It's interesting to discuss what would have happened with equal tires, different trims, etc., but at the end of the day, these aren't really "numbers" cars so there's some danger in losing sight of the forest for the trees.

More important (to me anyway) is how close the subjective results were. Having read the article, I got the impression Pobst enjoyed the Miata significantly more at the track, but didn't realize how close it was until I saw the video. He was pretty much split aside from the top-down motoring aspect, which I can understand (hard to beat driving a roadster on the right day).

In the end, these are two epic "driver's cars", and we're lucky to have the choice between the two. Pick the one that fits your needs. Personally I'd probably pick the ND Miata if I didn't love track days so much.

[JS + BRZ]

Originally Posted by Rampage

MT did not have much choice other than testing the Club or the GT against the BRZ because there are almost no Sports being imported yet. But even if they had tested the BRZ against the >$26K Sport there is no proof that the BRZ would have prevailed. The Sport does not have LSD or Brembos or BBS but it also does not have the entertainment center and other features that add weight. It does have the same engine and HP/TQ. It will most likely be the lightest MX-5 available. LSD and Brembo arguably may make little difference on a track with a 2250LB/151HP car. We will have to wait for test data to see.

I expect that many weekend warriors/track addicts will start with the Sport as a basis for their toys. It will be the blank canvas on which they will add coilovers, mechanical LSD,exhaust, tune and ungraded brakes or pads.

I really do not understand the hate and angst. This is a win/win for anyone who loves small bore performance cars. If you like a flyweight and can deal with a convertible then you have the MX-5 option. If you want a metal roof over your head at all times then take the bantamweight FR-S/BRZ. Either way you cannot lose.

This....

Why do people have to fight over everything? #BecauseInternet

But just be happy that we have nice affordable cars to shop around.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

More important (to me anyway) is how close the subjective results were. Having read the article, I got the impression Pobst enjoyed the Miata significantly more at the track, but didn't realize how close it was until I saw the video. He was pretty much split aside from the top-down motoring aspect, which I can understand (hard to beat driving a roadster on the right day).

Definitely the video was good, the article tends to get dominated by the statistics at the end as it's hard to absorb the subjective comments, seeing the cars in action with the opinions really shows how they're two sides of the same coin.

And really drives home how awesome stock 86 suspension is.


Edit: I like the implication that the ND is about enjoying the moment, the 86 is about searching for more, maximizing what's possible.

[spicyricecake]

no one is fighting over anything. it's called a debate. I personally love this video by Motor Trend, but have an opinion that the BRZ had an unfair advantage, but that advantage not being Mazda's fault. Bravo to Mazda for offering a performance package. More manufacturers should do that (cough* subaru)

At the end of the day it is preference, and no hate/bitching/whining/complaining is happening. If you don't like open discussions, then why are you on a forum?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit: I like the implication that the ND is about enjoying the moment, the 86 is about searching for more, maximizing what's possible.

Yeah that was well put. Even in the older Miatas, there was this level of enjoyment or contentedness I'd get driving on back roads at 6/10ths. It was the pleasure of driving (rather than of exploring the limit). The Miata is really unique in that it offers that level of basic fun.

In the old NC Miata comparison, there was this great line by the writer: "Ultimately, the FR-S is the better driver's tool, while the Miata is the better driver's toy."

I don't know if it's because Motor Trend has tested the FR-S/BRZ and Miata so many times, but they really seem to get the difference between the two.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Too much complaining about the test IMO. Objectively the results speak for themselves - an ND Club Miata is slightly faster than a Series Blue BRZ in all metrics. Lap times, 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. It's interesting to discuss what would have happened with equal tires, different trims, etc., but at the end of the day, these aren't really "numbers" cars so there's some danger in losing sight of the forest for the trees.

More important (to me anyway) is how close the subjective results were. Having read the article, I got the impression Pobst enjoyed the Miata significantly more at the track, but didn't realize how close it was until I saw the video. He was pretty much split aside from the top-down motoring aspect, which I can understand (hard to beat driving a roadster on the right day).

In the end, these are two epic "driver's cars", and we're lucky to have the choice between the two. Pick the one that fits your needs. Personally I'd probably pick the ND Miata if I didn't love track days so much.

Right I think it was being lost on some people here how much praise MT was dishing out on the BRZ. Carlos Lago said he preferred the BRZ handling. There was no loser car in this competition and I think they had to pick a winner, well, because it generates discussion and hits and they are in the business to get hits and make money.

My takeaway is this. If you want a fun, light, RWD car and if you want/like a convertible the new Miata is a great car. If you want/like a coupe the BRZ is the way to go. I was in San Francisco/Cupertino for work last week and I totally get why people buy convertibles there. Minnesota. Not so much.

[wbradley]

I'd like the MX-5 short term and it attracts my interest,but not my $. Sorry Mazda.

[Dake]

I’d be surprised if the Miata wasn’t faster. But I am surprised by how little considering it’s a top “race” spec version. I guess they chose the BRZ so they would be comparable in price, but you could get last model year’s FR-S for six grand less than a new Miata. A set of stickier tires would easily make up the two second difference on the track and leave you with a couple years’ gas money to boot. But, the new MX-5 does look great and sounds fantastic. Still, a really good review over all imo, and I'm happy though not surprised that the now three-year-old Twin platform still holds its own handily. Let's face it, Mazda knew exactly what they needed to do for the new Miata to be a success; the metric was spelled "FR-S/BRZ", and they worked to [barely] surpass it.

Again, it’s a debate that will never end, but for those of us who can only afford one car the Miata is a tougher sell. I’m getting ready for an HPDE this month that’s an hour and a half away. I can throw a couple of spare wheels, my jack, jack stands, a basic tool box, helmet, an overnight bag, snacks etc, and still have room for the most important addition - my wife. We regularly take multi-hour roadtrips in comfort, and it gets me to and from work in a pleasant fashion the rest of the time. When real life is involved, I’ll still pick the Toyobaru every time.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

no one is fighting over anything. it's called a debate. I personally love this video by Motor Trend, but have an opinion that the BRZ had an unfair advantage, but that advantage not being Mazda's fault. Bravo to Mazda for offering a performance package. More manufacturers should do that (cough* subaru)

At the end of the day it is preference, and no hate/bitching/whining/complaining is happening. If you don't like open discussions, then why are you on a forum?

Thank you. It's remarkable sometimes how poorly people handle not agreeing with each other. Alluding to conspiracy was just plain ridiculous. Instead this test was mostly sloppy journalism (at best) and motivated journalism/PR at worst. Also, I'm kind of shocked at how much information some are willing to overlook to try and make their point.

If I were to have been author/editor piece knowing that the cars provided couldn't produce directly comparable performance data (due to trim levels, and-ons, and price) then performance data wouldn't have been highlighted to the degree it was (or even at all).

IMO MT seemed desperate to present an instrumented comparison. Desperate because they couldn't or wouldn't create a apples to apples conditions and also because their conclusion was that neither the BRZ or Miata are about instrumented performance. So why bother? MT's sloppy control method introduced so much cross talk into this comparison that the comparison has little value outside of what's obvious (both cars are light and fun).

womp womp

[Foobar]

Regardless of what someone else says is better, we are all free to buy and drive the car(s) of our own choosing. Nothing more than that needs to be debated.

[Levi]

Fact: Mazda MX-5 ND is not as slow as Twin-owners wish it to be.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Thank you. It's remarkable sometimes how poorly people handle not agreeing with each other. Alluding to conspiracy was just plain ridiculous. Instead this test was mostly sloppy journalism (at best) and motivated journalism/PR at worst. Also, I'm kind of shocked at how much information some are willing to overlook to try and make their point.

If I were to have been author/editor piece knowing that the cars provided couldn't produce directly comparable performance data (due to trim levels, and-ons, and price) then performance data wouldn't have been highlighted to the degree it was (or even at all).

IMO MT seemed desperate to present an instrumented comparison. Desperate because they couldn't or wouldn't create a apples to apples conditions and also because their conclusion was that neither the BRZ or Miata are about instrumented performance. So why bother? MT's sloppy control method introduced so much cross talk into this comparison that the comparison has little value outside of what's obvious (both cars are light and fun).

womp womp

It sounds like you are outright calling it a conspiracy, in your very own post (emphasis mine).

The lengths you've gone to in order to discredit this test is astounding.

[Dake]

It's not an even playing field, but the reality is, these two have been compared to one another since the Toyobaru arrived - and it wasn't an even playing field with earlier Miatas either. No matter what, they're not apples to apples because they are fairly different cars that just happen to come in at similar price-points.