Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by totopo

Haha, the amount of denial on this forum is amusing. Why can't people accept that faster cars are going to come out? and that more fun cars are going to come out? Maybe because it now makes the twins the sports cars with the worst track times. But from the begining, if you bought the car for the track time, you bought the wrong car. The car was always about driving feel over track times.



Haha, hasn't this been put to rest yet? The oem tires are pretty good.

pobst: He says the tires feel a bit like they're on marbles but recalls that grippier tires he tested with Tire Rack didn't improve the BRZ's lap times. "The Subaru is very happy on its stock tires because it's so balanced that there's not much drag in the turns. Extra [grip-induced] drag in cornering can slow it down."http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html



What is wrong with roll? It doesn't mean too much on a track. Maybe in autocross. Roll helps with uneven length a-arms, you can get more negative camber than roll angle change, which is great for corners, and better than static camber because it doesn't mess with your brake and acceleration. True it's worse in transitions and slalom, but that's not its purpose.



So what was it i always saw on this forum? how the figure 8 was the be-all-and-end-all test for sports cars?

Yeah, the 86 doesn't respond to mods like tires and better brakes at all.

-2.3 secs per lap here:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_IWa_qlt3g"]2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube[/ame]

106ft and 23.5 @ 0.78g here:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKXzDhGhoEg"]Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ! Balance Meets Power - Ignition Episode 71 - YouTube[/ame]

He said in the same league as the Audi R8 V10, Ferrari 458 and SRT Viper. Didn't hear Miata...

What's not amusing is selective bias and poor analytical skills being parroted by haters. On the right track using proper wheel and tire selection (not sponsored by Tirerack), the 86 is objectively faster. It's obvious why Probst wasn't an engineer as he's apparently too busy parking GTRs in swamps these days. Or maybe he doesn't want o offend his bosses sponsors for arranging a meaningless test to advertise heavy wheels and tires that would only amplify issues with the stock torque band of the 86 on a track like streets of willow.

As someone already said, your usual redundant and baseless trolling has been responded to many times before. Move along please.

So does the 86 respond well to mods? Yeah I think so.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by SmartedPanda

For those Power-to-Weight Ratio freaks like myself. The important bit.
Basically, BRZ needs a diet, and better tires, which is doable with the $ saved compared to the Miata. Great video.

I agree. Always hoped the 86 would come in at 2500lbs max. But you can get close at 2550lbs with a little work. If you really care about power to weight, you wouldn't get a Miata, you'd get an MR2 or a Lotus.

Personally I've always felt the Miata is for people committed to having a toy as a single car DD. For a strict dedicated toy there are better options to add to your stable.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Yeah, the 86 doesn't respond to mods like tires and better brakes at all.

Are you implying that the Miata doesn't improve with mods like tires and brakes as well?


All a matter of perspective. If you've got $30k to build a car, sure the 86 comes out on top, if you're going for the best laptime on a car that retains factory warranty with no strict budget I'd bet my bottom dollar the MX-5 comes out on top.

Better torque curve, shorter wheelbase, and a 450 lb weight advantage do not disappear because "tires and brakes"

The 86 will be declared objectively faster once it wins an objective comparison, so far it's lost two.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Are you implying that the Miata doesn't improve with mods like tires and brakes as well?

What? Interesting logical leap to make when I'm directly responding to a troll.

I think which is better as a track car depends on a number of factors. So it's relative to me. Apparently it's not to some others.

Btw, that Miata in the video already had improved brakes and better tires than the 86 for $3K more. That's the point.

[Futaba]

Originally Posted by Sideways&Smiling

The telescoping wheel feature is more of a luxury/gimmick, IMO. At least, that's how I feel about it in the FR-S. The range of adjustment is pretty small, and I could easily drive comfortably at any adjustment point... nor did I ever once think about it in any older sports cars that didn't have it. *shrug*

Sure it's personal preference, but that pretty small adjustment to me feels like the difference between driving a sports car and a HGV.
I am very sensitive to wheel angle/height.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by abraxis

What? Interesting logical leap to make when I'm directly responding to a troll.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Could someone please explain to me what NA, NB, NC, ND means?

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by GT86_PRAGUE

Could someone please explain to me what NA, NB, NC, ND means?

Each generation gets a consecutive letter suffix.
NA - Gen 1
NB - Gen 2
etc...

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Each generation gets a consecutive letter suffix.
NA - Gen 1
NB - Gen 2
etc...

I suspect that but it seems too odd to be true. Thanks.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

All a matter of perspective. If you've got $30k to build a car, sure the 86 comes out on top, if you're going for the best laptime on a car that retains factory warranty with no strict budget I'd bet my bottom dollar the MX-5 comes out on top.

Haha does that mean the fanciest brake pads and tires money can buy?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Better torque curve, shorter wheelbase, and a 450 lb weight advantage do not disappear because "tires and brakes"

Also better weight distribution and double wishbones in the front. If you're building a moderately high-budget, dedicated track car, the ND Miata theoretically holds most of the advantages. Only ones I can think of for the BRZ are aero and CG height. Possibly chassis stiffness.

That said, if you want a lower-budget, mixed-used DD/track car, I'd guess the BRZ should still come out on top for most. Mainly for practicality and ability to track without roll bar.

[Cockatoo]

I don't get how they can compare the club version of the Miata ($33k as tested because it had touring package as well), to the BRZ Series Blue ($30k)...

They should have just used a BRZ Premium ($26k), because with the more expensive models there are no performance differences, unlike the Miata...

If you were to put $2000 into a base model BRZ, it would most likely be quicker than a Miata Club spec (starts at $28k)

[spicyricecake]

Agree with Cockatoo here, this is like comparing base FRS/BRZ lap times with a WRX STI (~8k more in price, brembos, bigger wheels, turbo, etc).

Should have compared Base to base. If they wanted to absolutely use the Club version, then they should have clearly stated that it had a clear hardware advantage. I find that our cars only being a couple of seconds slower despite the hardware disadvantage makes it a better car

on a side note, their footage turned out really well and I was happy to see a series blue in action like this.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by spicyricecake

Agree with Cockatoo here, this is like comparing base FRS/BRZ lap times with a WRX STI (~8k more in price, brembos, bigger wheels, turbo, etc).

Wow. An STI, really? Apparently the ND is even faster than I thought!

You guys are pretty amusing. These cars are in the same price range, period. They both start around $25k, they both have trim levels that go to around $30k, the ND has one more package on top of the Club that gives you Brembos and BBS wheels for another $3k. I don't think the Brembos made for an almost 2-second gap.

Would it be interesting to see a base or GT ND's lap times? Sure, I'd be interested in how much difference the Bilsteins and LSD make. But to call this an unfair comparison sounds pretty weak. Suck it up! The most important thing about these cars is not their lap times, it's how much they let you enjoy pushing to the limit and improving your skills.

There was a lot more information in the video than just the two numbers at the end.