Doing my first trackday this wknd

[stugray]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I disagree.

Everyone needs to start with the nannies off, and also KNOW that they have all the nannies off. This prevents dependence on the nannies, and progresses the driver's understanding of vehicle dynamics that much faster. This prevents the mentality of "oh the nannies will save me" versus "oh the nannies aren't there and if I do that, it'll probably spin me out, possibly damaging the car, so I won't do that".

A novice will not have the awareness to notice a flashing VSA light.

I disagree ONLY from a safety standpoint.
If you have never been on a track before or never driven this car on a track, then nannies ON is safer.

IF you have some track experience then I would agree with you.
I drove mine on the track the first time, and my 18 year old drove it the same day. Neither of us had ever been on a track.

We both left all nannies on, and when I was driving, I dont recall ever seeing the lights warn me and my son was watching.
When HE was driving, the only time the nannies stepped in was when he would have gone 4-off, but the nannies saved him.
It's my DD, I dont need track damage.

It depends on the level of experience of the driver:
Familiarity with any car on a track?
Familiarity with this car on a track?
familiarity with that particular track?

If you drive the car well, the nannies should not interfere until you get pretty good and the confidence level increases.

[CSG Mike]

There's also a stark difference between just signing up for a track day and blindly going out on your own in the novice group, and having someone guide you.

If you're just going alone without someone experienced coaching you, then yeah, I'd say leave the nannies on the first few times.

Problem is, even when the nannies do save a novice, they won't know it. I hear, all too often, novices talking about how they got sideways and recovering, and drifting around corners, when in reality the nannies are preventing them from losing control.

[Icanfaptothis86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I disagree.

Everyone needs to start with the nannies off, and also KNOW that they have all the nannies off. This prevents dependence on the nannies, and progresses the driver's understanding of vehicle dynamics that much faster. This prevents the mentality of "oh the nannies will save me" versus "oh the nannies aren't there and if I do that, it'll probably spin me out, possibly damaging the car, so I won't do that".

A novice will not have the awareness to notice a flashing VSA light.

I agree here. Learn with the nannies off. I encounter them enough on the streets anyways. Also the cops... reminds me I have a court date coming up... le sigh

[Icanfaptothis86]

I decided on these mods I am going to do to my mini cooper s for the track. Not in order.... The first one I will be doing is the Schroth harness.

Mod Cost Notes
Enkei Racing RPF1 16 x7 $844 Saves 11.4lbs over stock wheel
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R $515 Extreme performance tires
OMP R53 Strut brace $210
Wilwood Street big brake kid 12.2 $959 Fits most aftermarket 16inch wheels - includes stainless steel brakelines
Wilwood Big rear rotor kit $600 Includes stainless steel hoses
Schroth Qucikfit Mini racing harness $267 With shoulder pads
Quicksilver catback $1,075 Saves 27.5lbs over stock - Mini Mania
Koni Lowering kit $960

[Icanfaptothis86]

I also plan on removing the fog lights for better brake cooling and weight loss also tickling my jimmies

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Icanfaptothis86

I agree here. Learn with the nannies off. I encounter them enough on the streets anyways. Also the cops... reminds me I have a court date coming up... le sigh

Look at it from this perspective:
What are the consequences of having the nannies OFF when you wished they had been ON?
You dig some weeds out of your bumper or worse you hit a wall/other car.

What are the consequences of having them ON when you could have gotten away with them OFF?
You missed out on a few runs where you could have learned some more car control.

Nannies ON = full track day with less experience feeling the car "handle"
Nannies OFF = might be just a partial day at the track and a ride back home on a wrecker.

So compromise: Leave them on until you are familiar with the track.
Disable with button push for the rest of the day.
Dont try the pedal dance until you have lost it a couple times and learned to recover.

I agree that one serious disadvantage of learning with the nannies ON is that you might not ever get a chance to recover the car properly because the car is doing most of the work for you.

So maybe a caveat: Nannies ON and a goPro video review after the first few runs to see how frequently it is stepping in and saving you (dash lights)
If you can make a nice smooth run without the lights flashing, then turn them off and work your way up to feeling the car rotate when you want it to.

[Icanfaptothis86]

Originally Posted by stugray

Look at it from this perspective:
What are the consequences of having the nannies OFF when you wished they had been ON?
You dig some weeds out of your bumper or worse you hit a wall/other car.

What are the consequences of having them ON when you could have gotten away with them OFF?
You missed out on a few runs where you could have learned some more car control.

Nannies ON = full track day with less experience feeling the car "handle"
Nannies OFF = might be just a partial day at the track and a ride back home on a wrecker.

So compromise: Leave them on until you are familiar with the track.
Disable with button push for the rest of the day.
Dont try the pedal dance until you have lost it a couple times and learned to recover.

I agree that one serious disadvantage of learning with the nannies ON is that you might not ever get a chance to recover the car properly because the car is doing most of the work for you.

So maybe a caveat: Nannies ON and a goPro video review after the first few runs to see how frequently it is stepping in and saving you (dash lights)
If you can make a nice smooth run without the lights flashing, then turn them off and work your way up to feeling the car rotate when you want it to.

Nah man traction control is for the street

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Icanfaptothis86

I decided on these mods I am going to do to my mini cooper s for the track. Not in order.... The first one I will be doing is the Schroth harness.

Mod Cost Notes
Enkei Racing RPF1 16 x7 $844 Saves 11.4lbs over stock wheel
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R $515 Extreme performance tires
OMP R53 Strut brace $210
Wilwood Street big brake kid 12.2 $959 Fits most aftermarket 16inch wheels - includes stainless steel brakelines
Wilwood Big rear rotor kit $600 Includes stainless steel hoses
Schroth Qucikfit Mini racing harness $267 With shoulder pads
Quicksilver catback $1,075 Saves 27.5lbs over stock - Mini Mania
Koni Lowering kit $960

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT use a harness, without a roll bar, harness bar, HANS, and a non-reclineable bucket seat.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by stugray

Look at it from this perspective:
What are the consequences of having the nannies OFF when you wished they had been ON?
You dig some weeds out of your bumper or worse you hit a wall/other car.

What are the consequences of having them ON when you could have gotten away with them OFF?
You missed out on a few runs where you could have learned some more car control.

Nannies ON = full track day with less experience feeling the car "handle"
Nannies OFF = might be just a partial day at the track and a ride back home on a wrecker.

So compromise: Leave them on until you are familiar with the track.
Disable with button push for the rest of the day.
Dont try the pedal dance until you have lost it a couple times and learned to recover.

I agree that one serious disadvantage of learning with the nannies ON is that you might not ever get a chance to recover the car properly because the car is doing most of the work for you.

So maybe a caveat: Nannies ON and a goPro video review after the first few runs to see how frequently it is stepping in and saving you (dash lights)
If you can make a nice smooth run without the lights flashing, then turn them off and work your way up to feeling the car rotate when you want it to.

The fallacy here is that even with review, a novice will have no idea what they did wrong. When there is no consequence for a mistake, you will keep making it.

If someone wants to drive with the nannies on, they should buy an Evo or GT-R; either way the car is doing the driving for them.

[Icanfaptothis86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT use a harness, without a roll bar, harness bar, HANS, and a non-reclineable bucket seat.

Why?

I was sliding all over my leatherette bs seat.

I am looking to do this on the cheap bc i no longer care about this car and plan on grenading it at some point.

[Icanfaptothis86]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The fallacy here is that even with review, a novice will have no idea what they did wrong. When there is no consequence for a mistake, you will keep making it.

If someone wants to drive with the nannies on, they should buy an Evo or GT-R; either way the car is doing the driving for them.

Just bc it is my first trackday does not necessarily mean I am a novice.

I know the tracks well from my motorcycle experience.

I have read skip barbers book cover to cover twice.

I can heel toe perfectly 95% of the time

I had no seat time but I had driven the car very spirited for 8 years straight. I know the vehicle well.

Please dont rustle my jimmy johns

[Icanfaptothis86]

You dont buy a pure drivers car like a mini cooper, lotus or 86 to drive with nannies on.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Icanfaptothis86

Why?

I was sliding all over my leatherette bs seat.

I am looking to do this on the cheap bc i no longer care about this car and plan on grenading it at some point.

It's unsafe. If you have a head-on impact, you have a high chance of submarining. It's not pretty. If you have any sort of longitudinal impact, without a HANS, your head will snap forward.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE"]HANS vs No HANS live crash - YouTube[/ame]

This is not a very high speed impact....

[Icanfaptothis86]

Duly noted