Japanese auto manaufacturer name changes

[roybotnik]

Most of the people that buy Luxury brands are dumb and care more about image than any performance or history. True fact.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by roybotnik

Most of the people that buy expensive cars are dumb and care more about image than any performance or history. True fact.

UMMMMM nope, nope, nope and nope.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by roybotnik

Most of the people that buy expensive cars are dumb and care more about image than any performance or history. True fact.

So why did you buy a 911 Turbo when you can have the same performance for less money?

Why buy a Porsche when you can have the same performance for less money?

-alex

[roybotnik]

Originally Posted by mav1178

So why did you buy a 911 Turbo when you can have the same performance for less money?

Why buy a Porsche when you can have the same performance for less money?

-alex

Do you have any idea how fast a 997 911 turbo is? There isn't a ton of cars that go 0-60 in <3.5 seconds. People say the same thing about the 911 turbo and other hyper cars. This is a ridiculous comment and I think you missed the point.

I said most people. Are you honestly trying to argue and say that the hundreds of thousands of people who buy the latest base model luxury car are doing it because they are incredibly intelligent and educated about cars? I guess I should have said Luxury brands not expensive cars, I didn't mean 100k+ cars. I was referring to the actual discussion in this thread - why Japanese automakers have to have luxury brands in the USA. Trust me it's not because the average American car buyer is a genius.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by roybotnik

Do you have any idea how fast a 997 911 turbo is? There isn't a ton of cars that go 0-60 in <3.5 seconds. People say the same thing about the 911 turbo and other hyper cars. This is a ridiculous comment and I think you missed the point.

I said most people. Are you honestly trying to argue and say that the hundreds of thousands of people who buy the latest base model luxury car are doing it because they are incredibly intelligent and educated about cars? I guess I should have said Luxury brands not expensive cars, I didn't mean 100k+ cars.

997 911 turbo is no doubt a superb vehicle. But I am posting to correct your classification of said car.

918 spyder = hyper-car.

911 = not

[roybotnik]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

997 911 turbo is no doubt a superb vehicle. But I am posting to correct your classification of said car.

918 spyder = hyper-car.

911 = not

I meant they say the same thing you said - like 'why get an aventador if the 911 turbo S is faster?'. Sorry I wasn't very clear. I know its definitely not a hypercar.

And in my previous post I didn't mean to say 'expensive' cars since I'm sure anyone buying a car over 100k that isn't a fully-loaded Lexus SUV knows what they're getting into. I meant the branding thing... Your average M-B CLA buyer probably isn't buying that car because it's a great value or the best thing you can get for that price.

[Dave-ROR]

As one can see from my currently owned vehicles I am all about image.

Now bow down before me you inferior beings.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by roybotnik

This is a ridiculous comment and I think you missed the point.

I said most people. Are you honestly trying to argue and say that the hundreds of thousands of people who buy the latest base model luxury car are doing it because they are incredibly intelligent and educated about cars? I guess I should have said Luxury brands not expensive cars, I didn't mean 100k+ cars. I was referring to the actual discussion in this thread - why Japanese automakers have to have luxury brands in the USA. Trust me it's not because the average American car buyer is a genius.

I don't think it's ridiculous nor did I miss your point.

I am fully aware of what you said, however you are really pointing out the fallacy of this entire argument:

Automotive enthusiasts are generally educated and know more about the car they own than the salesperson.

The other majority of the automotive market will buy what fits their need. To reduce them to being "dumb" simply because they wanted luxury/image more than performance/history is the absurd point.

If you are an average buyer and your budget range is $30-35k and you are looking for a 4-door family vehicle that has good gas mileage, good safety ratings, a good warranty, and a good dealership that you can get service from ... what is the difference between the 100+ models you can find on the market as long as it meets the specs above?

I wasn't shopping for a Lexus when I was looking for a car last year. I ended up with one because, as you said, most people are dumb and are looking for image. In my case, it was a car that fit my budget and needs and was not something I had considered previously.

Luxury brands exist because of the rise of the "luxury" European brands and their success. BMW/Audi/MB were entirely sold/marketed as a luxury brand, and established American/Japanese brands knew they could not compete if their original namesake was kept, hence the rise of luxury branding and product segmentation.

It's the same with technology. Why would NVIDIA go to the lengths of branding a graphics card GeForce/Tesla/Quadro/Tegra when they can just be an "NVIDIA 980Ti" for gamers or "NVIDIA K4000" for developers?

Answer: name = qualities and attributes about a brand and products = set certain expectations for the customer. It's also the reason why you bought a Porsche 911 Turbo as opposed to a Corvette with 600HP.

-alex

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I don't think it's ridiculous nor did I miss your point.

I am fully aware of what you said, however you are really pointing out the fallacy of this entire argument:

Automotive enthusiasts are generally educated and know more about the car they own than the salesperson.

The other majority of the automotive market will buy what fits their need. To reduce them to being "dumb" simply because they wanted luxury/image more than performance/history is the absurd point.

If you are an average buyer and your budget range is $30-35k and you are looking for a 4-door family vehicle that has good gas mileage, good safety ratings, a good warranty, and a good dealership that you can get service from ... what is the difference between the 100+ models you can find on the market as long as it meets the specs above?

I wasn't shopping for a Lexus when I was looking for a car last year. I ended up with one because, as you said, most people are dumb and are looking for image. In my case, it was a car that fit my budget and needs and was not something I had considered previously.

Luxury brands exist because of the rise of the "luxury" European brands and their success. BMW/Audi/MB were entirely sold/marketed as a luxury brand, and established American/Japanese brands knew they could not compete if their original namesake was kept, hence the rise of luxury branding and product segmentation.

It's the same with technology. Why would NVIDIA go to the lengths of branding a graphics card GeForce/Tesla/Quadro/Tegra when they can just be an "NVIDIA 980Ti" for gamers or "NVIDIA K4000" for developers?

Answer: name = qualities and attributes about a brand and products = set certain expectations for the customer. It's also the reason why you bought a Porsche 911 Turbo as opposed to a Corvette with 600HP.

-alex

To be fair, the seats and steering of a 2008 Vette are an absolute joke compared to a 911.


Of course, I wouldn't get a 911 Turbo myself as so much of the fun to drive factor of a better (for my preferences) 911 has been reduced.


I'd agree that the general public is simply shopping the same way they shop for anything else. Brand preference, budget, needs, wants, etc.


Enthusiasts just have different needs/wants.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Now bow down before me you inferior beings.

[wbradley]

Separate brands to sell thru separate franchise agreements. In Japan they have several different types of Toyota franchises. Toyopet sell certain models, there might be a different franchise for the Corolla line etc. Here we get brand differentiation to market different segments. Lexus is more luxurious than Toyota, the franchise agreement sets different standards for the building architecture and so on to fit the prestige and price point of the brand.
Brand engineering, selling basically the same vehicle with different trim is what marked the demise of Oldsmobile and Pontiac. So now GM has Chevy, roughly their Toyota. Did away with Saturn, roughly their Scion. Pontiac and Olds were somewhat redundant vs Chevy and Buick. Cadillac is like Lexus and GMC is basically selling a badge engineered Chevy truck in the same territory, hopefullyto hold a larger market share for corporate.
Up until the 70's I believe GM held something like 55% market share in Canada. Toyota, in partnerships lwith GM lke CAMI and NUMI learned more about the business in North America and eventually it became the student instructing the teacherI prefer Ford's simpler approach now with a regular and luxury line.