FR-S vs S2000

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by suzuka

Just give your S2k a mugen hardtop, a decent coilover to soften up for daily-driving like MOTONs and call it a day

Motons for a daily? Thats a waste.

[Tyler]

I got apex blue

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I disagree.

With what? :O

[suzuka]

Originally Posted by Mike

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...

The result is glaringly clear.

It's all here for the world to see... that a clutch-type LSD in carbon form with the most aggressive setting can make an AP1 be man-handled on a notoriously bumpy circuit in a way that can be considered a banzai charge.

... and not to mention that even in the most aggressive setting, that carbon LSD is very streetable!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z38tFT9oE04"]ATS Carbon LSD / Initial Torque 20Kg-m - YouTube[/ame]

"it works super-linearly and midly"

"... I think we have the best LSD ever"

"(without this LSD) There's now way you can drive like this"



I sent a private message to the uploader of that video and he said it's an AP1 with everything stock except steering wheel, tires and LSD

[fernan2]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9_hZqvY5RM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

[Mike]

Originally Posted by suzuka

The result is glaringly clear.

It's all here for the world to see... that a clutch-type LSD in carbon form with the most aggressive setting can make an AP1 be man-handled on a notoriously bumpy circuit in a way that can be considered a banzai charge.

... and not to mention that even in the most aggressive setting, that carbon LSD is very streetable!

"it works super-linearly and midly"

"... I think we have the best LSD ever"

"(without this LSD) There's now way you can drive like this"



I sent a private message to the uploader of that video and he said it's an AP1 with everything stock except steering wheel, tires and LSD

Cuz you know, this marketing video isn't biased at all.

As I've said before, this LSD has no benefit over a stock LSD when the car is otherwise stock.

Get some seat time on track first, and then come back, and give me more than just spewing out more than what you've read, and I'll be ready to listen.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Originally Posted by fernan2

Well..what did you expect?

About the S2000 setup, I know what I'd fit on it if I had to buy another one: A good coilover kit.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Originally Posted by enigma

I've been thinking long and hard about parting ways with my AP1 when I can find a Whiteout FR-S... I love my S, but it's also my daily which means it can be a little exhausting on long trips, not to mention loud on the highway (wind noise, radio blasting so you can hear it, AND an invidia exhuast...)

Why, oh why Honda didn't make a coupè version?
Quieter, bigger boot, even more rigid frame, more aerodynamic.
I remember seeing mockups at the time I had mine, it was brilliant:

Then Spoon did this:


BMW did the Z4 Coupè and it's still one of the best M cars you can buy. The 3.0si is a bit soft (no LSD, electric steering instead of the hydralulic of the M).

I'm really looking at the gt86 as a cheaper, lighter, more practical Z4 Coupè.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Gardus

Why, oh why Honda didn't make a coupè version?
Quieter, bigger boot, even more rigid frame, more aerodynamic.
I remember seeing mockups at the time I had mine, it was brilliant:

That's a beautiful rendering.


People often complain that Japanese car makers produce designs that are "created by committee," rather than cars that are the fruit of a single vision. If this complaint has merit, the S2000 was an exception. It was offered as a "Here's your car. Pick your color and shut up." kind of deal. Rather than see it for what it was, some people insisted on the fast food option of "Have it your way." And they are doing the same thing with the FT-86. They got excited about the car when it was developed as a dedicated sports car. Now, they want it to be a comfortable daily driver as well. Seems pretty immature to me.

[G4mb17]

Originally Posted by samsam5886

I jotted down some of the things I care about comparing the two. This was originally for myself but then I stumbled upon this thread and thought I might share.

FR-S compared to S2000:
Seats 4 and better audio system than AP1 (arguably)
Also aluminum hood and engine block
Lower center of gravity and maybe even lower than Porsche's
No 50/50 weight distribution (engine doesn't sit behind front axle) but very close
Slightly more grip than stock AP1 not considering tire choice (860mm total tire width except on 17s)
No front double wishbone suspension but Porsches don't have them either
Chassis rigidity probably less (no X-bone monocoque frame) but possibly the same due to roof, if not just a little less
Lower redline and just about 25 hp slower (based off of whp to weight ratio) but power isn't that important to me and power is more "usable"
Also high compression engine with high power per liter but not as high
Gas cap inconvenient on right but you get more exercise
Oil filter very easy to access
Spark plugs harder to change and ignition coils possibly dirtier from sitting lower, but this is once in around 100,000 miles anyways
No HID, no top down

Yeah, have ordered my BRZ and will trade my AP1, my list was more visual:

Things I like better about my S2000:
exhaust tips: the BRZ has a small pipe in a large tip to look big. S2000 just has larger pipes.
Gear shift knob (S2000 has a nice optional titanium one)
Cup holders, S2000 has none, BRZ seemed to have 2
tranmission tunnel. S2000 was higher and fabric covered, BRZ has lower and plastic - this made the cabin feel nice and cosy
Power, about the same up to BRZs red line, but S2000 develops more from 7500-9000 red line - which I didn't use oftern as the car had to be warm.
A/C vents on BRZ - they look cheap
climate/stereo controls point to the driver in the S2000 and could be operated without looking.

Things I not big on the BRZ
spoiler, would rather none or a big one.
stock wheels - will replace
Prefer the Toyota nose
Prefer the Toyota86 badges because the 86 has good history.

Things like like about the BRZ
Colour (Blue Pearl)
wheels 45s rather than 50/55s on S2000
more storage for weekends away
has a roof! Better rear vision (not plastic) - hopefully better noise
analog RPM gauge
stereo/nav, will hopefully be able to hear it on the motorway now
better mpg

Things I like about both
seats
gear shift
steering wheel

I've yet to drive the BRZ, but I always felt a little on edge in the S, I'm not the best driver in the forum, and it always felt like it was waiting for me to make a mistake so it could put me in a hedge backwards.

[ESBjiujitsu]

I love the spoon S2000 and i would agree I would of gone bonkers for a coupe s2000. I also have a passion for the Z4!!! Great body lines in both cars but I think the 86/brz has perfect body lines in the stock form just needs the right rims and the perfect drop. But boy o boy is that spoon s2k slick!

[ultra]

If they still made the S2K this would have been a much tougher choice.

On the one hand the S2K seems destined to be the better performer since it has that extra 40hp and proper double wishbone suspension.

The new 86 (against a brand new S2K) would trade a little edge and speed for slightly more accessible dynamics and an added dose of practicality for a little less money.

It would have been a tough choice because I love S2Ks but the reality we've got is a choice between a new 86/BRZ and used S2Ks, which changes th game a bit. If I had to spchoose one right now to keep for the next 4 or 5 years it'd have to be the 86/BRZ if only because the car will likely still be n production, whereas even the newest S2K will be around 8 years old in 4-5 years.

Both awesome cars. I like to see the 86/BRZ not as an 'enemy' of the S2K but an opportunity to own someing which combines some of the best attributes of the Miata, S2K and RX8 in a time where most cars are getting boring and flabby.

[AaronCompNetSys]

Originally Posted by Mike

What?

A locking diff is a limited slip diff...

Are you confusing a live rear axle or welded diff? Or 1 way vs 2 way?

I was referring to how torsen is full lock or not locked, none of this gradual stuff that you get with clutch type. For playing around in my car, I don't see a need to have a "threshold" of slip before it starts to lock. Lock it up under power, and take your yaw into your own hands

I'm not being all that serious, I know that isn't for newbs and its not for everyone.

Different subject, did anyone read the Evo special about the BRZ? It sounds like the powerband is just not wide enough to be fun. Sounds like comparing 5-7.5k band vs 5.5-9k band in the S.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

I was referring to how torsen is full lock or not locked, none of this gradual stuff that you get with clutch type.

I think you need to study up a bit more on how a torsen diff works....
They don't LOCK, the torque biasing is limited (typically ~3-5:1), and depends on torque application.

For playing around in my car, I don't see a need to have a "threshold" of slip before it starts to lock. Lock it up under power, and take your yaw into your own hands
I'm not being all that serious, I know that isn't for newbs and its not for everyone.

You've got it backwards, Torsens *are* for newbs, which is why they come in more cars from the factory (Miata, S2000, etc.). Not many (any?) cars come from the factory with clutch-types, and it's not because they're too newb friendly!

I've driven both in multiple cars. My 255rwhp 240Z had a clutch-type, my S2000 has the stock torsen, my 500+hp FD has a Torsen T2R.

The Clutch type does have the advantage of continuing to drive the wheel on the ground when the other wheel is airborne (T2R also does this, but not most Torsens...).

Clutch types are usually shimmable to give you pretty much as much bias as you want, up to locked. You can EASILY have them WAY more "hardcore" than Torsens.
My preference for clutch types is to run the minimum breakaway initial torque I can get away with and rely more on the ramps to provide lockup under power.
Never agreed with the approach of shimming the bejeezus out of them to the point that you may as well have welded the diff!

Anyway, I like whatever diff always allows me to put the power down to both drive wheels without inducing too much understeer or otherwise acting goofy for no good reason.