New potential FR-S driver - Introducing myself

[Jeremy.NL]

Hi, I'm Jeremy from the Netherlands,.

In a few months I will be relocating to the USA.

For the last 7 years I have owned a 1984 Porsche 944, with improved suspension (thick antiroll bars and Koni adjustable dampers), adjustable bucket seat, 4 point harness, performance brake pads and sticky tyres.
It doesn't make sense to bring the car over with me, so I will be selling it, and will have to get something else in the US.

I get my fun out of the car on trackdays on the various circuits around here (Zandvoort, Assen, Zolder and of course the Nurburgring), and on long drives in the hills/mountains (none in Holland so I have to drive to Germany or the Alps).
What's important to me in my toy is handling and communicativeness, and I like to drive cars that get better the harder you drive them.
I also have 2 kids, so have an occasional need for rear seats.
The only new car that meets my requirements is the GT-86/BR-Z/FR-S, and I decided that I will eventually have one on the day it was announced.

In Holland I was waiting for the used prices to go down enough for me to buy one, but I see that in the US it appears to be common to lease any car, and I can get my ass in to a new FR-S on a 36 month lease for less than $400 a month.
As opposed to my 944, which is chiefly a weekend car (I own a cheap beater for everyday use), I plan for the FR-S to be my daily drive as well.

I'm still googling to find out about how things work in the US, and I'd love to get some feedback from Americans here regarding my expectations and some questions I have.

I assume that I am not going to be able to get financing for a new car, since I do not have any credit history.
Is it reasonable to expect that I will be able to lease a new car without a credit score?
Are there any tips or tricks you have about the leasing? Are there any hidden surprises in there? Is there room for negotiation to sweeten the deal?

I saw on the Scion website that there is a handling kit (springs and antirollbars) that you can get fitted on the car from new.
Normally I keep my cars standard for a year or so before doing any modifications, as I want to know exactly what I want to improve, so I'm wary about getting this kit from the start.
What's your advice about this kit? What effect does it have on the standard setup, and how big a difference is it? Does it interfere with using the car as a daily driver?
Can the kit be retrofitted by Scion at a later date?

Another point is that I am considering a Subaru Outback as the family car that my wife will drive. If I'm closing a lease on an Outback and I play dumb about the BRZ, mentioning that I was considering a Golf GTI or something as a second car, is there a chance a dealer will offer me a sweet sweet deal on a BRZ that will make me prefer it over the Scion? Are BRZs stuck in showrooms these days?
I have no brand preference between the two.

I'll stop here for now.
Once I've relocated and have a car, I will be back to find out where to drive it (circuits, twisty roads, autocrosses).
In the meantime, any other tips or advice you have for a car nut coming to the USA will be more than welcome

Thanks, and looking forward to be part of this community!
Jeremy

[soulreapersteve]

Originally Posted by Jeremy.NL

I assume that I am not going to be able to get financing for a new car, since I do not have any credit history.

Well, I cannot answer the rest of your questions but with this one, I can.

Do you have family or friends here in the US? If so, use them as references on the finance application. That's how I was able to get financing with no credit history.

Ask them first before leasing and see what they say.

[swarb]

Having no credit and low credit are two different things. No credit means they won't give you credit towards a car, aka no car(cash only). Having low credit means they will charge you a lot.

[Jeremy.NL]

Thanks Soulreapersteve
My sister does live in the US and has good credit, so that's a great tip I will use when needed!

But what reasons are there to prefer finance over a lease for a new car?

If I am buying a car for myself, I always buy used, as I do not appreciate taking the hit for the first 3 years depreciation. If I get finance for a new car, then half of that financing is basically going down the drain.
If I can get finance to buy a 3 year old FR-S, that might make sense to me.
Can one get financing on used cars in the US?

Another reason to lease and not to buy is that I aspire to a Porsche Cayman, and hopefully a few years down the road I will be able to put myself in one of those (used of course), and it may be better not to be tied down in a car that I own with financing.
Your opinion?

Thanks swarb,
I'll be coming with no credit history at all, but I have to get started somewhere...
I've had advice like getting a small loan from my own bank, just so that I can pay it back regularly and build up credit rating. Or apply for every possible credit card until I get at least one, and use it and pay it off to build my history.
That's all new to me... But that's also for a different forum...

[LucidMomentum]

Now that's a first post. Welcome!

Let's see if I can answer any questions:

Is it reasonable to expect that I will be able to lease a new car without a credit score?

Yes, but most likely without financing. Some dealers may work with you though. Case in point, a friend of mine and I graduated at the same time, but I had student loans and a credit card I'd been paying off, while he had no debt (and thus, no credit). He said he had tons of trouble looking for any place that would let him finance a car, whereas I had a bit of pushback being 22 at the time, but my 670 credit score showed them I was responsible.

So prepare to have cash on hand for the down payment, worst case.

Are there any tips or tricks you have about the leasing? Are there any hidden surprises in there? Is there room for negotiation to sweeten the deal?

Not really for leases. Do a bit of research on where you'll be living and see what driving distances for things like work, the store, etc. are like to get an estimate of how many miles you'll be putting on it. Make sure your lease isn't below a good estimate, or that'll be extra. Also if you lease you have to be sure to either not modify the car outside of the dealer add-ons, or return the car to stock for service / return. But some dealers may not mind. It depends.

What's your advice about this kit? What effect does it have on the standard setup, and how big a difference is it? Does it interfere with using the car as a daily driver?
Can the kit be retrofitted by Scion at a later date?

I have the front Sway Bar and I like it. Lets you corner a bit more before the car wants to start a drift, which I prefer. Some people don't. I didn't get the lowering / TRD springs because stock height is already a challenge for me in my area. Lowering the car would have meant scraping on a lot of surfaces...

They can be purchased and installed at a later date, but it may cost you more than if you did it up front with the deal. But that depends.

Another point is that I am considering a Subaru Outback as the family car that my wife will drive. If I'm closing a lease on an Outback and I play dumb about the BRZ, mentioning that I was considering a Golf GTI or something as a second car, is there a chance a dealer will offer me a sweet sweet deal on a BRZ that will make me prefer it over the Scion? Are BRZs stuck in showrooms these days?

Could work. I've seen dumber ideas work at dealerships. As for BRZ sales, I'm not sure. The WRX might have been cutting into BRZ sales but I doubt they're desperate to make a deal. These are pretty niche cars that are selling fairly well.

Hope that helps!

*EDIT*

Originally Posted by Jeremy.NL

Thanks Soulreapersteve
My sister does live in the US and has good credit, so that's a great tip I will use when needed!

But what reasons are there to prefer finance over a lease for a new car?

If I am buying a car for myself, I always buy used, as I do not appreciate taking the hit for the first 3 years depreciation. If I get finance for a new car, then half of that financing is basically going down the drain.
If I can get finance to buy a 3 year old FR-S, that might make sense to me.
Can one get financing on used cars in the US?

Thanks swarb,
I'll be coming with no credit history at all, but I have to get started somewhere...
I've had advice like getting a small loan from my own bank, just so that I can pay it back regularly and build up credit rating. Or apply for every possible credit card until I get at least one, and use it and pay it off to build my history.
That's all new to me... But that's also for a different forum...

Your sister can co-sign for you on any financing, which will help your odds of financing greatly.

Now when we in the U.S. say "financing" we literally mean "get a loan" for the car. You can finance the down payment of a lease, or finance the whole car when you purchase.

You can also finance a used car, but those rates may differ unless the dealership is selling the used FR-S/BRZ themselves.

Applying for credit / loans that you can pay off is a great way to build credit. Heck, if the dealer won't help you, go to a bank, get the loan, then come back and get the car.


For you it seems the best course of action would be to have your sister help you find a dealer who is selling a used '13 FRS/BRZ and will let her cosign for your financing. Or pay for the down payment or finance the down payment on a lease of a new one.

[8R6]

welcome!

[Jeremy.NL]

Thanks LucidMomentum, this does help!

I might be tight on cash, as it'll be more important to get appliances for the home, as I can't use European appliances out there, but I'll keep in mind to try and keep some aside for this purpose.

About mods - I'm cool with not doing aftermarket mods, if the manufacturer mods cover what I feel I might want. (I assume they don't care what tyres I use?).

Wouldn't fitting only the front sway bar result in more understeer, rather than delaying the oversteer?
I get your driving preference. I only get the tail out in the 944 on very tight turns when it's wet. Sticky tyres and only 163 bhp make sure of that.
What effect does using sticky tyres have on the FR-S? Would that not have a similar effect to delay the tail-out point?

[Jeremy.NL]

Originally Posted by 8R6

welcome!

Thanks!

[chaoskaze]

U will love it.

But You will hate US road condition.

[F3RGY68]

Hey! I stayed in amsterdam and drove nurburgring in April. I'd hold off on buying the handling kit. Needs and costs are quite a bit different between these countries. If you decide you want it later you can buy the parts used and have the dealer install. I love the tail happy frs, but the brz has less oversteer. I'd do tires before suspension if you want it changed, but imo it's less fun.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Jeremy.NL

About mods - I'm cool with not doing aftermarket mods, if the manufacturer mods cover what I feel I might want. (I assume they don't care what tyres I use?).

Wouldn't fitting only the front sway bar result in more understeer, rather than delaying the oversteer?
I get your driving preference. I only get the tail out in the 944 on very tight turns when it's wet. Sticky tyres and only 163 bhp make sure of that.
What effect does using sticky tyres have on the FR-S? Would that not have a similar effect to delay the tail-out point?

I've never heard of tires being an issue. Especially if you slay a few during the lease

I like the little bit of "hold" the front sway bar added. I may add a rear though, to see what all the fuss is about :p

Funny you mention 163 bhp, because my FR-S dyno'd at 163 whp
I currently drive it with Michelin Pilot A/S 3s, and they are perfect IMO. Tons of confidence in the corners, and I know if I want to really make the tires squeal I can with some effort. It just gives you a bit more stick before you start to drift, which I prefer since I like driving back roads and such.

[Jrryjms07]

Check out Digital credit union. I work at a Honda dealership (I know, I know) and have had customers that are new to the states from overseas get an approval threw them.

https://www.dcu.org/mobile/loans/aut...es-mobile.html

[OCRaceShop.com]

Welcome to FT86Club

[Vracer111]

Nice first post...I'm not going to try an help with the financing question, because I'm not qualified to do so. I will say if you are looking at leasing you need to be sure of how many miles you will be driving. Depending on where you end up living and working you could be driving 100+ miles a day... that would not be good for any lease terms.

As for modding the suspension...leave it stock - the suspension does not need to be touched, it's an incredible piece of design that absolutely floors me with how awesome it is. The track/autocross cars I've built in the past just can't compare to a STOCK suspensioned FR-S/BRZ... the stock FR-S/BRZ suspension makes a brand new miata suspension seem sloppy and slow in response. It has high speed stability with good tires (Maximum Performance tire category highly recommended for the best daily dry/wet performance balance) unlike anything I've driven before... absolutely planted, yet incredibly precise to put it where you want it. There are two things I would immediate change with the car though...and I recommend these to anyone interested in actually DRIVING the car.

1. Stock steering rack bushings and fastener design is inadequate - does not properly locate the steering rack concentric to its mounting points and allows the steering rack to move all over the place when going through the cornering sequence, leading to hesitation and slight squirrelyness. There are excellent aftermarket two-piece Delrin or Aluminum bushings for not a lot of money that absolutely fix the mid-turn weirdness issue. They have proper fasteners with machined threads of same diameter as the shaft (not rolled threads with excessive slop resulting from the shaft diameter being smaller past the threads ). Best $ (and not a lot either) you can spend on an FR-S/BRZ if you value precise and accurate steering.

2. Grimmspeed strut tower bar to triangulate the two factory ones. It's a properly thick (1/8" wall thickness) steel tube with welded tower mount ends. The ride it gives is noticeably improved - reduces the felt impact of bumps and sharp dips while making the front end feel much more solid. It also helps some with handling...which you initially might think feels like a very slight increase in understeer but actual makes the car more neutral and able to be pushed harder.

Those two things are all I'd highly recommend doing besides going with better wheels/tires and brake pads.