Motor Trend's $28K Bang for the Buck (spoiler alert!)

[Spaceywilly]

On the other hand, I'd rather fly a general aviation plane than an F-22 which would try to suffocate me at high elevations

[DubGUy]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

FT86CLUB Homepage Featured Story


July's Motor Trend compares 6 cars discussed ad nausem here against each other, including the twins. They wanted to include the V6 Camaro as well but GM didn't have "one available".

The article is not on their website that I can find, but the end result is:

6. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T R-Spec
5. Volkswagen GTI
4. Ford Mustang V-6
3. Mazda MX-5 Miata Grand Touring
2. Scion FR-S
1. Subaru BRZ Limited

Primary difference between the twins seems to be the suspension preference and they considered the Subaru a better value if you want the extra bling.

Randy Pobst quotes:

FR-S: "Stability controls have allowed setups like this - too loose at entry, a real drift car".

BRZ: "Bravo, Subaru (and Scion), and thank you for these proprioceptor-pleasing injections of the driving drug, the BRZ is better balanced."

The article is 10 pages (20 print pages because of ads) and no single chart compares all of them, but definitely worth a read.

Here is the article (in PDF):

Scan #1
Scan #2
Scan #3

You did it again Dadhawk, thanks for the articles, love that the BRZ and FR-S are on the top 2 compared to the other cars. Thanks again!

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by Exhaust

I think you should, just to get a rise

Won't happen. We already have a thread dedicated to the twins, and there are plenty of other comparisons made. Most people are still happier with their Genesis Coupe purchase because (choose from) larger car, more features, more power, more practical. That said, after seeing an FRS in person finally, I'm sold on looks alone.

That and, if you come to troll, remember that I hold the banhammer over there.

[Rampage]

LOL at calling Randy Pobst a "last generation" driver. He is still one of the fastest
of the American road racers. Drifting is never the fast way around a race track and that is what the FR-S is much more prone to do than the BRZ. Toyota tuned it that way and marketed it that way. That tendency can easily be corrected by adjusting the spring rates or the sway bars.

I would be surprised if most professional road racers did not prefer the hooked up more nuetral suspension to one that wants to oversteer if pushed hard.

Sliding the rear end around may look cool but it is not fast unless you are dirt track racing.

[#87]

Originally Posted by Exhaust

I wonder how pissed the genesis coupe forums are right now lmao

I doubt they are pissed. The gen cost about the same and has better numbers, so they will surely point that out and not care. That said I prefer the non number result and I think this article sums up why I am getting this car. Once there is a reputable FI kit for this car, it will be the best of all worlds IMO.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by #87

I doubt they are pissed. The gen cost about the same and has better numbers, so they will surely point that out and not care. That said I prefer the non number result and I think this article sums up why I am getting this car. Once there is a reputable FI kit for this car, it will be the best of all worlds IMO.

Agreed. The GC was on my wishlist for a very long time, but hearing numerous reviews about how vague the shifter feel is, complaints about the steering and the complaints about rev-hang, I am convinced that I would enjoy the slower BRZ/FRS more.

[Mango22]

The BRZ is Marsha. :-)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZHveWFvqM&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZHveWFvqM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

[cassidy0998]

It's funny how they compare the 4cyl. Genesis Coupe. The V6 is $28K.

I'd like to see how it compares to those rides.

[viper_driver]

Just got this in the mail today.

After EVO's assessment of BRZ vs FR-S I was totally expecting the FR-S to win again. Really interesting how differently they see the two cars.

[SioXie101]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

Interesting that this article says the FR-S has firmer damping and less body roll than the BRZ. I seem to remember reading in other articles that the FR-S has more body roll. Can anyone elaborate?

agree, as most reviews that i read gears toward the FRS as prone to oversteer while BRZ exhibits more balance at the limits.

Anyway, other than the GTI, all these cars are on my shopping list.... just waiting for the Focus ST pricing to arrive and the if the Veloster turbo lives up to its name.

[bazguitarman]

I picked this issue of Motor Trend a couple of days ago. It was a great read as I want to absorb everything I can about the FR-S/BRZ platform.

One thing I did find interesting though. I was a little suprised that Randy Pobst prefered the more buttoned down handling of the BRZ. Especially after seeing the driving segment he did for episode 14 of the Ignition youtube magazine. Which is probably my fave of the youtube FR-S videos. Randy appeared to be having a blast in the FR-S. He had a big smile on his face the entire drive. He even laughed out loud a few times while commenting on how lively a car it is. He had nothing but praise for the FR-S. Including the shifter, suspension and fun factor.

I honestly don't see the one/two finish as a win or loss for either car. They are just a little different as far as the suspension setups. Just go with the car you personally prefer. The oversteer of the FR-S could easily be fixed with a little stickier tire. Remember Toyota set this car up for a little oversteer on purpose.

Eric

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Can't these reviewers agree on anything? Evo on 86: "Immediately you notice there is considerably more roll on turn-in"; "Understeer, so rare in the BRZ, is never far away"; "oversteers nicely, progressively, with none of the snap-back exhibited by the BRZ"

These are all the exact opposite of the MT review - did one of the publications get punk'd and have the bodies swapped on them?

Thanks to these rags for really clarifying things.

Yes they do seem to contradict. However, I think I can explain.

The 86/FR-S has softer front springs and stiffer dampers. What this means is that in harder turns, you should notice more roll and potentially understeer. But with more weight going to the front under deceleration, it is easier to get the rear to come around as well - more in a pivoting manner rather than a snapping manner with the BRZ's equal spring rate setup as both ends fight for grip. But in lighter turns, you won't notice the roll as much as the stiffer dampers do most the work.

With that said, I'm pretty sure I'd favor the FR-S setup. Sure it may be less stable when I don't want it to be but I can leave on stability control in those situations to hopefully prevent me from completely losing it. Also, I think it'll be more fun feeling the rear come around a bit even on normal roads which could potentially teach me RWD dynamics better. Since I already have an AWD car and plan to keep it, I would want it to feel noticeably different. And I also prefer relatively stiff dampers with quick response to bumps. It gives me more confidence and feel for the road.

Even though these differences are small, they are definitely worth considering if you are planning to keep it on stock suspension. Let's not forget that the handling is the most appealing feature of these cars to most people.

[titusdrake]

I dont think the Mustang was properly represented. I want a rematch

[AshWilliams]

Motor Trend literally whored themselves out to get themselves a Nissan GT-R press car.

They named the VW Passat the "car of the year" of 2012.

This is another stunning piece of fluff journalism...

Let me paraphase...

"We liked the FR-S, because it's cheap and handles well, but we liked the Subaru with its better interior, which makes it much more expensive, better. It's one of the slowest cars around the track, but for some reason that makes it fast."

"We can't drive these cars at 9/10ths, but our untamed racing driver said the BRZ is more confidence inspiring, so it can be driven faster... but it's still slow."

"We didn't like the Mustang. It has a V6, is American, has a live axle, is heavy, POSTS THE FASTEST TRACK TIMES, ACCELERATES FASTER, TURNS FASTER, STOPS FASTER. It's the best racing car here, despite having a pickup axle. We think the car sucks and doesn't drive well... maybe because we can't drive well... We did everything we could to make it not drive fast, but it kept being the fastest!"

"The Genesis was also stupid fast, but we don't know how to drive fast... so we don't like it either."

"The Volkswagen does everything the best, and this is what you should expect from a car like this, but we don't like it."

"Um, the Miata was good, but it isn't anymore... or something."

This isn't automotive journalism. If they wanted to just say that the FR-S and BRZ are small, light, and fun to drive, and that confers more confidence (subjectively) compared to a V6 Mustang (more due to inexperience, stupidity, or an anti-American bias) then be my guest. But don't include a test track as the core of the test then choose to ignore actual numbers for subjective perceptions.