What is your DOC fee?

[Turbowned]

Depends; we are online with the registry so we don't have to, but I'm sure less techy dealers do have to make the run themselves.

There's a lot of paperwork involved in a new car purchase. And it has to remain confidential. And it would suck if you had to do it yourself.

[thill]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

As someone who paid a $599 doc fee, I can tell you that anything over $0 IS insulting. I only paid it because, as part of the 1st86 program, I feel I received enough added value through other means that I was willing to pay it. That was after spending time with corporate trying to switch dealers because of it, and they would not allow it. I actually came within a very fine line of not buying the car for that single reason.

I can tell you that I would not have bought the FR-S through any dealer that charged a DOC FEE on top of MSRP which already insures you can make a living on the price of the car being sold to you.

I find the Doc Fee particularly insulting when tagged on top of a $5,000 used car (where in my case it would have been 10% of the car).

As I have said elsewhere, under "normal" conditions I would have either walked out, not bought the car, or told you "this is the price I'm willing to pay. If you want to call $299 of it a "Doc Fee" that's fine, but I'm not paying it over the price of the car".

I understand there is cost in selling any product, and do not begrudge anyone a profit, but I will not pay a fee where there is no significant value-add to it for me. The fact that the fee varies so much from dealer-to-dealer and state-to-state tells me it is nothing but a junk fee.

I do appreciate that you have a more "reasonable" fee than my dealer, but its just a lesser degree of junk.

That's just it. One dealer will charge $75 and the other will charge $300 for a doc fee. It clearly is a ploy to make more money. I imagine many don't even notice the fee when they sit down to do their paperwork and are too focused on the price of their car and getting out the door.

At the end of the day, out the door matters the most. I really don't care if a dealer charges a $500 doc fee if they beat the others guys price out the door. Or if they are willing to give me considerably more for my trade. But asking MSRP for a car then add on additional accessories then charge a doc fee? Seems unreasonable, but as you stated, the cars are all the rage and dealers smell blood. It will be a different story once the demand and supply stabilize.

Dealers also need to learn. If a dealer treats me right, I almost always take my car to their dealership for service and routine maintenance. I was very upfront with my dealer about this and they waived the doc fee on the last car I purchased and I kept my word and had the car serviced and maintained at their dealership.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I dunno about you guys, but I'll gladly pay $289 to avoid a trip to the DMV...f**k that noise!

In Georgia, the dealer submits the registration electronically, and charges you what the state charges them for that as part of the "Tags and Title" portion. They go down once a week and pick up all the tags with no hassle and no waiting in line. (At least that's what my dealer explained to me)

What does that really "cost" them then that I have not already paid for?

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

That is a standard fee that we charge on every single car sold weather it's new or pre-owned. So no it is NOT marking up the car.
(glad to see you know everything that is involved in a car sale...)

I run a small business that generates a lot of paper work. Shipping papers, bills of lading and so on. The fact that dealers say they need a doc fee is just pure crap! The paper work is part of the sale and the profit of the sale should be plenty to cover any cost.

I've shipped orders for as little as $15.00 and still had to print documents.

A doc fee is just pure mark up and everyone knows it. Just try and negotiate it down. I got my dealer to go from $249.00 to $100.00 and car is at MSRP. No additional fee's of any kind.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Depends; we are online with the registry so we don't have to, but I'm sure less techy dealers do have to make the run themselves.

There's a lot of paperwork involved in a new car purchase. And it has to remain confidential. And it would suck if you had to do it yourself.

Oh so you click a couple of buttons and charge $289 for it.

...

...

This is awkward.

Paperwork is part of the normal course of doing business. Period.

[Turbowned]

Meh, whatever. I've never had a customer squawk about paying the doc fee, but then again I sell cars that cost up to 10 times as much as the FR-S, so...

I'll be paying $289 for my BRZ's doc fee.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Meh, whatever. I've never had a customer squawk about paying the doc fee, but then again I sell cars that cost up to 10 times as much as the FR-S, so...

I'll be paying $289 for my BRZ's doc fee.

I guess if you've got someone willing to drop a quarter of a million dollars (price of an FR-S X 10) on a car, they wouldn't notice $289 since its barely a rounding error.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

No, I'd rather everyone pay MSRP and dealers to be fair on trade-in values, and stop being shifty on adding added features and extra fees. In a perfect world...

Everything comes with an MSRP whether it's a car or a can of soda. A dealer, like a vendor of soda, can choose to charge above or below MSRP based on a number of factors. Whether or not you choose to pay for it is up to you. You don't sit there an negotiate on your grocery bill though, nor do you counter-offer on a new watch or a pair of shoes. The haggling process is the part that I dislike. Scion's Pure Price is meant to eliminate haggling, which is supposed to make people feel relieved that they can just walk in, pick the car, and buy it without the stress of going back and forth on price. I hate doing it as a salesperson and as a buyer alike.

Bottom line is, guys: you're getting a car that performs better than some cars costing way more money. It's also one of the best driver's cars ever. Assuming you pay MSRP (and you're a fool if you pay any more than MSRP, because they aren't that rare), you're getting a great deal paying $25k for this car!

I previously overlooked this post. It makes a lot of good points.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by thill

That's just it. One dealer will charge $75 and the other will charge $300 for a doc fee. It clearly is a ploy to make more money. I imagine many don't even notice the fee when they sit down to do their paperwork and are too focused on the price of their car and getting out the door.

At the end of the day, out the door matters the most. I really don't care if a dealer charges a $500 doc fee if they beat the others guys price out the door. Or if they are willing to give me considerably more for my trade. But asking MSRP for a car then add on additional accessories then charge a doc fee? Seems unreasonable, but as you stated, the cars are all the rage and dealers smell blood. It will be a different story once the demand and supply stabilize.

Which is exactly why I don't negotiate in person.

I find the invoice of the vehicle, add $100-$200 profit, tax it, then add title and license fees, then round up to the nearest 50/100. If a DOC fee can be extrapolated from that final number, fine. Otherwise "pound sand".

Using that method is foolproof. It's a "take it or leave it" deal and requires nothing more than a 3-5 minute phone call to any dealer of your choice. My last 4 cars were purchased this way without having even met the salesman until I walked in with the cashiers check or pre-approved loan.
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edit: forgot to add the profit($100-$200) on top of invoice in my offer.

[bestwheelbase]

Lots of good information in this discussion. We strayed a bit from the initial topic of just doc fees but I think all these things are relevant to the buying process as a whole. Thanks to everyone for engaging in a civil dialogue where dissenting opinions are respected and considered.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

Which is exactly why I don't negotiate in person.

I find the invoice of the vehicle, tax it, then add title and license fees, then round up to the nearest 50/100. If a DOC fee can be extrapolated from that final number, fine. Otherwise "pound sand".

Using that method is foolproof. It's a "take it or leave it" deal and requires nothing more than a 3-5 minute phone call to any dealer of your choice. My last 4 cars were purchased this way without having even met the salesman until I walked in with the cashiers check or pre-approved loan.

I have also used the buying service through either my insurance company or the credit union in the past. If all else fails, I use my father-in-law who is one of the "good guys" in the car sales business.

Yes they exist, and are probably more frequent than not. These "piss off the customer" policies should be laid directly where they belong, at the feet of the dealership, not the sales staff, as the sales staff doesn't make this stuff up.

[viper_driver]

I no longer believe in Scion Pure Pricing....did until this car came out this month. I have seen numerous dealerships in the US where they advertise online for MSRP, then have a 'market adjustment' on the window sticker at the actual stealership.

If they want to make a profit, fine with me. But, according to Scion's website they must sell the car at at MSRP if they advertise it as such. They aren't doing this.

[whtchocla7e]

Originally Posted by viper_driver

I no longer believe in Scion Pure Pricing....

Me neither.
When I first heard about it, I thought it was meant to help the consumer.
I was a sucker...

[Grubby]

Mine was $195, so put up no fight....