What is your DOC fee?

[BRZranger]

Here in Washington State dealers can only charge $150. I got mine waived by competing dealers. Only thing I paid was sale price, destination fee (sometimes waived), tax, license and minus my trade.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Dbjunk

Never traded a car in before but planned on making a trade for the FR-S....good to know it will reduce the amount Ill be paying in sales tax...if only slightly.

Im afraid the Doc fees will offset that though.

I'd sell it private party. I was offered $4k for my 2002 civic with 100k miles. I listed it that night on craig's list for $5500 and had about half a dozen buyers ready to buy it the next morning. I didn't even post any photos of the car!

Originally Posted by YukiHachiRoku

Mine is $499.00 not a penny moar. Please enlighten me, I want to raise some hell.

I think mine was $250

Brett

[civicdrivr]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

Really guy. This isn't that type of forum. If you're going to be a troll go do it some place else. Now you're acting like we are the only dealership that has a doc fee when pretty much every dealership has them. Registering, titling and properly storing YOUR information are not things that come for free and no none of those are done by sales people. They are done by the accounting staff. Most of our doc fee goes towards that, an inspection sticker (which is only $30), cleaning and prep of the car and a full tank of gas. Is there a profit there? Of course there is. But it's not a magical number that we decided to add just to this car because it happens to be hot right now. That's my point of no additional markup on this particular car. But I can see that there is no reasoning with you so I'll leave it at that. I bet you're the guy that walks into a dealership and demands to see the invoice to then offer $1,000 under that because dealerships are supposed to be charities and not a profitable business.

Im not trying to start a e-war here or single you out, but if the DOC fee covers what you stated above, what does the dealer hold back cover?

Last I checked, on a '13 FR-S 6MT, that hold back is just over $1k.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by thill

Yep. Pure price is pure BS. Look what what many dealers in Florida are doing with the FR-S. Marking it up $6k then pulling the "pure price" bs so there is no negotiation...

Ridiculous...

Respectfully submitted for your consideration...

Pure Price is not BS, the dealer is BS. Pure Price is the only thing making it easy to tell what they're doing. One call to your local dealerships and you can tell who is competitive and who is being greedy; that's more than can be said for any other dealer network where negotiation is commonplace and they're going to say anything/everything to get you in the door.

At least with Scion they must tell you up front "Our FRS is $29,985 because it comes equipped with snake oil, a dream catcher, and $1,800 for window tint and [paint protection] wax." If you don't want it, you can move on. Like buying a television.

Is it ridiculous how dealers tack on fees and/or overpriced crap to pad their bottom line? Yes THAT is ridiculous. Is it absurd how Scion wants this buying experience to be less salesmanship and more straightforward purchase like any other consumer product? No, that's NOT ridiculous at all.

Food for thought. Thanks for openly sharing your opinions/perspectives.

[thill]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Respectfully submitted for your consideration...

Pure Price is not BS, the dealer is BS. Pure Price is the only thing making it easy to tell what they're doing. One call to your local dealerships and you can tell who is competitive and who is being greedy; that's more than can be said for any other dealer network where negotiation is commonplace and they're going to say anything/everything to get you in the door.

At least with Scion they must tell you up front "Our FRS is $29,985 because it comes equipped with snake oil, a dream catcher, and $1,800 for window tint and [paint protection] wax." If you don't want it, you can move on. Like buying a television.

Is it ridiculous how dealers tack on fees and/or overpriced crap to pad their bottom line? Yes THAT is ridiculous. Is it absurd how Scion wants this buying experience to be less salesmanship and more straightforward purchase like any other consumer product? No, that's NOT ridiculous at all.

Food for thought. Thanks for openly sharing your opinions/perspectives.

Most dealers will give you a quote via email that lists all installed options and prices, and will give you the out the door price. I have bought my last six cars this way and been able to negotiate the final price of the car without even stepping foot into the dealership. With service like Truecar, you know exactly what you should be paying. Negotiating holdback can be tricky, but on a car that is not popular and is sitting on the lot, I have done it a few times.

[raphymartinez]

Originally Posted by civicdrivr

Im not trying to start a e-war here or single you out, but if the DOC fee covers what you stated above, what does the dealer hold back cover?

Last I checked, on a '13 FR-S 6MT, that hold back is just over $1k.

Hold back and profit are two different things. Profit is the markup the vehicle has between invoice and msrp. Holdback is what the manufacturer will pay the dealership once the car is sold.

For example, a 2012 corolla Le has a markup of $1,160 but also has a holdback of $358 and a finance reserve of $179

A standard FR-S has a difference of $1,196 between msrp and the invoice price. But unlike Toyotas they have no holdback or finance reserve.

And in my eyes that's a fair profit for a dealer to make on his investment. Most of the doc fee will go to actual expenses at the dealership so there isn't too much more there either.
I do however get upset when I see outrageous doc fees of 6,7 or even over $1,000 because I know there isn't THAT much expense that needs to be covered.

[Turbowned]

Aside from the dealer marking up stupid add-ons and making it mandatory for you to buy them, I like Pure Price. Why? Because you're buying a cheap car. It costs less than $25,000. The difference between invoice and MSRP is what, $1,000? Why should you need to negotiate on such a cheap item to begin with?

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by thill

Most dealers will give you a quote via email that lists all installed options and prices, and will give you the out the door price. I have bought my last six cars this way and been able to negotiate the final price of the car without even stepping foot into the dealership. With service like Truecar, you know exactly what you should be paying. Negotiating holdback can be tricky, but on a car that is not popular and is sitting on the lot, I have done it a few times.

Clearly you prefer to negotiate. That is fine. It doesn't make Pure Price BS, it just means you prefer a different approach.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Aside from the dealer marking up stupid add-ons and making it mandatory for you to buy them, I like Pure Price. Why? Because you're buying a cheap car. It costs less than $25,000. The difference between invoice and MSRP is what, $1,000? Why should you need to negotiate on such a cheap item to begin with?

You would dislike Pure Price on, say, a $50k car?

[Turbowned]

No, I'd rather everyone pay MSRP and dealers to be fair on trade-in values, and stop being shifty on adding added features and extra fees. In a perfect world...

Everything comes with an MSRP whether it's a car or a can of soda. A dealer, like a vendor of soda, can choose to charge above or below MSRP based on a number of factors. Whether or not you choose to pay for it is up to you. You don't sit there an negotiate on your grocery bill though, nor do you counter-offer on a new watch or a pair of shoes. The haggling process is the part that I dislike. Scion's Pure Price is meant to eliminate haggling, which is supposed to make people feel relieved that they can just walk in, pick the car, and buy it without the stress of going back and forth on price. I hate doing it as a salesperson and as a buyer alike.

Bottom line is, guys: you're getting a car that performs better than some cars costing way more money. It's also one of the best driver's cars ever. Assuming you pay MSRP (and you're a fool if you pay any more than MSRP, because they aren't that rare), you're getting a great deal paying $25k for this car!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

...Kinda weird how others have mentioned 5 and 6 hundred dollar doc fees but apparently ours at 299 is insulting....

As someone who paid a $599 doc fee, I can tell you that anything over $0 IS insulting. I only paid it because, as part of the 1st86 program, I feel I received enough added value through other means that I was willing to pay it. That was after spending time with corporate trying to switch dealers because of it, and they would not allow it. I actually came within a very fine line of not buying the car for that single reason.

I can tell you that I would not have bought the FR-S through any dealer that charged a DOC FEE on top of MSRP which already insures you can make a living on the price of the car being sold to you.

I find the Doc Fee particularly insulting when tagged on top of a $5,000 used car (where in my case it would have been 10% of the car).

As I have said elsewhere, under "normal" conditions I would have either walked out, not bought the car, or told you "this is the price I'm willing to pay. If you want to call $299 of it a "Doc Fee" that's fine, but I'm not paying it over the price of the car".

I understand there is cost in selling any product, and do not begrudge anyone a profit, but I will not pay a fee where there is no significant value-add to it for me. The fact that the fee varies so much from dealer-to-dealer and state-to-state tells me it is nothing but a junk fee.

I do appreciate that you have a more "reasonable" fee than my dealer, but its just a lesser degree of junk.

[Turbowned]

I dunno about you guys, but I'll gladly pay $289 to avoid a trip to the DMV...f**k that noise!

[bestwheelbase]

^Dadhawk makes very good points.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I dunno about you guys, but I'll gladly pay $289 to avoid a trip to the DMV...f**k that noise!

Is that really what it covers? Someone from the dealership runs to the DMV (to that special window labeled "commercial/dealership only") to register the car?