Dealers

[chris@wagnersubaru]

Originally Posted by 86'd

You mean this Autonation?

And this Carmax?

They look like they're doing OK.

My wife purchased her Prius through Autonation Direct and it was probably the least stressful, easiest car buying experience we've ever had. We even got the car for less than MSRP.

I now recommend them to all of my friends and family when they decide to buy a car.

In the end I know its just a glorified Internet Sales Manager, BUT that's who people should be dealing with.

I guess so...

They built a huge building here and were in business less than a year....

They tore it down and built a Home Depot in its' place.

I thought I read in Automotive news that they all went out....unless they sold out.

Some famous football player was behind it at first.

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

From my brief experience in sales, many people seem to care more about getting "a good deal" than they care about getting the best product that's priced right to begin with. I can't tell you how many people I lose because a nearby dealer is out knocking $5,000 off MSRP while I calmly explain to them that we only have 6% mark-up in our cars, and that our manufacturer doesn't offer "hold-back" money, so if we sell a car for cash at invoice, we make zero money. Or when I explain to them that a comparable vehicle with the same features costs $7,000 more than our product, and our product is superior. It's all about "what can you do for me", "what's the best price", blah blah bullshit. I even show people the invoice and they still make a point to offer me thousands of dollars below. They say consumers are more informed these days than ever before, and yet most people still just don't seem to get it.

Again, I still wish the manufacturer would set the price, and people would pay it, and dealers would be fair about trade-in values and not try to take advantage of people with useless products like undercoating. Or better still, dealers would sell cars at invoice for zero profit, and make up for it in the service department where your wallet is really getting hurt

My viewpoint may be a little skewed as I work in highline sales and my sales staff is very friendly, helpful, and for the most part, honest. My finance manager is a crook, but most of our customers are smart enough to not buy into his B.S. When he's gone we'll be a much better place. And I know the dealership model is flawed. I just don't see any immediate solution that will get the old dogs to learn new tricks.

I was responding to the assertion that "everyone" wants to haggle for a good deal, and beat up on the salesman to get it. Which, even allowing for hyperbole, I still don't think is true. My first priority in car-buying is getting the exact car that I want (but then again, I'm a well-researched enthusiast). But my second priority is a car-purchase that is as smooth, easy, and hassle-free as possible. As I stated earlier, I'm not a haggler; offering and counter-offering and all that is akin to a root canal for me.

I will readily admit that people like myself are in the minority, but I don't think that we're out-and-out rare. Most of the people I talked to back in the day who owned Saturns didn't buy those cars because they felt an emotional attachment to them, or because they felt they were in any way superior; without fail, every person I knew said they bought them because they liked how they were sold, with no haggling, price-on-the-window pricing. And ya gotta admit, Saturn did very well for a long time, before GM choked it to death with some seriously shitty cars.

Ultimately, I think there's three kinds of car-buyers: those who love to haggle, those like myself who hate haggling more than anything, and those who haggle because they feel it's just what you do, and it's expected. Of those three groups, I'd bet the ones who genuinely love haggling and always angling for a better deal are in the true minority. I may be quite wrong here, but my gut tells me that if somehow Congress were to announce that they were reforming the auto sales industry, top to bottom, and wanted the American public to vote on whether they'd prefer set-pricing across the board, or the traditional prices-may-vary approach... I think the majority would opt for a vending-machine type car purchasing system. I have no hard data to back this up, only a lot of anecdotal evidence. Car buying is not a joyous occasion for non-car people I know, but rather a stressful event.

I worry too about an escalation of hostilities, so to speak. By now, there've been so many expose's and word-of-mouth stories of shady dealer practices, that I wonder how many people go into a dealership intent on being hard negotiators, just to guard themselves against imagined (or real) unseen hooks and charges. For example, why should you believe a dealer's invoice on a car, when you've heard of them trying to sell you $500 coats of wax as a "polypixidustical paint protection shield"? Car dealer equals scum in the public's eyes anymore; and whether or not certain individuals are undeserving of that reputation, there's a reason it got there in the first place.

Just wondering out loud...

[AshWilliams]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

I worry too about an escalation of hostilities, so to speak. By now, there've been so many expose's and word-of-mouth stories of shady dealer practices, that I wonder how many people go into a dealership intent on being hard negotiators, just to guard themselves against imagined (or real) unseen hooks and charges. For example, why should you believe a dealer's invoice on a car, when you've heard of them trying to sell you $500 coats of wax as a "polypixidustical paint protection shield"? Car dealer equals scum in the public's eyes anymore; and whether or not certain individuals are undeserving of that reputation, there's a reason it got there in the first place.

Just wondering out loud...

If you search the interwebs enough, you get an idea what a car actually costs a dealer. It's a huge pain in the ass to do, but if you research enough you will have within 300-400 dollars of what it probably cost them.

Then you walk into a dealership and tell them you want x car for y dollars (with y being the list price). It tends to go easier if they have the car on the lot than having to order it, because they will always want to get rid of inventory sitting around rather than doing dealer trades or other crap.

The way it goes from there will determine what happens next. If a dealer blows you off and acts like they make no profit over MSRP, leave. If they tell you they can't do what you've researched the list price to be, then try to get within a few hundred dollars of it (by this point both parties have realized that 500-800 over list is a reasonable number but haven't really verbalized it). Getting a hard to find car like the FR-S for 800 over list is worth 300 bucks, at least to me.

Then you just politely say "no" to everything they offer from warranties, to payment protection, etc. It also helps to have your own bank to do the financing or pay cash--because if you have a trade you WILL get lowballed on it and given excuses as to how even if the car/truck is in excellent shape I can't sell THIS kind of model in THIS market.

If everything goes well, take all of their paperwork home, read over it, don't sign a damn thing in their offices. If it all looks kosher come in a day or two late and tell them you agree to their terms.

The other strategy is telling them "I need to buy a car now, what is the best deal you can you give me?" This is crazy and will often mean you will get a car/truck you may/may not want with options you may/may not need, but I got a 4WD Sierra farm truck for 12000 under MSRP this way (my current vehicle) because it was an unsold 2010 when the 2011's had come out, with an unpopular bench seat and vinyl interior.

It's pathetically agonizing, the car dealer process. They still make money, I still get what I think is a "fair" price, but why is it necessary? Are other buyers so ignorant/lazy that they think that giving away 2000 dollars for stale popcorn and crest whitening strips smiles is the norm? I've seen people haggle for 20 cents at the checkout line at the grocery store then shrug when the dealer tells them it's not 24999, but 25999. Worse yet, are the 'tards who want to pay 30k for a 25k sports car that will be barely worth 10 grand in 5 years that make all the car dealers salivate and demand ADM.

What I refuse to do is give a damn when the dealer tells me I'm wasting his time.

If he gave me a fair price, I'd be glad to stop wasting his time... but this usually means buying a car/truck is a waste of my own time.

[raphymartinez]

Just a simple question on all this no dealership stuff, and maybe someone familiar with how it's done those European countries where manufacturers sell directly to the consumer. What do people do about their trade if they are buying from the manufacturer? I know there is private sale but besides being a huge pain on the ass most people don't want to deal with that.
How does that end of the deal actually work?

[Alias]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

Just a simple question on all this no dealership stuff, and maybe someone familiar with how it's done those European countries where manufacturers sell directly to the consumer. What do people do about their trade if they are buying from the manufacturer? I know there is private sale but besides being a huge pain on the ass most people don't want to deal with that.
How does that end of the deal actually work?

If they don't sell the car themselves they just throw it in the garbage (rubbish bin) since all car salesmen have been completely abolished simply because the consumer has the option to buy a new car directly from the manufacturer.