FRS / BRZ Intake Manifold - Development Thread - FT-86SpeedFactory by Velox

[VerusEric]

Originally Posted by lamawithonel

No, I haven't been following that closely.

But I was thinking more like this.

Shark-skin surfaces for fluid-drag reduction in turbulent flow
DOI: 10.1098/rsta.2010.0201


Of course, there are no scales here-- no trailing edges, so I'm not sure if it would work. @eric6 and @NotEric6, have you run any simulations?

We have not as it is a manufacturing surface finish. We are not concerned with the effects it may (likely doesn't) have on the airflow.

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Bingo... Since I'm sure most of us drooling here drive our cars on the street too... We do need to take that into consideration

And yep, tooling costs are the issue. I think it's fairly easy to tweak your design for plastic upper plenum bits, but meh.

We are concerned with WOT air temps though, cruising air temps may be slightly warmer but WOT air temps should be roughly the same manifold to manifold. Warmer air during cruising sounds like a MPG gain to me .

In all seriousness though, we will do our best to bring a great product to production once proven in prototype form.

[boredom.is.me]

Healthy discussions are healthy.

As for tooling, that's the benefit of CNC machines. Individual changes can be made without having to completely throw out everything you have. Injection molding is a nightmare though.

In the case of plastic plenums, aren't people already pushing 20+ psi? I @Reaper was pushing 19 on the stock everything. If anything, some prefer aluminum for aesthetics, but I do believe that all of the plastic-gonna-blow-up people just don't want to accept the truth. Material is only part of the equation. You have to understand how to properly implement it. I'm really only prodding you guys for what it's worth. Like I said, healthy discussion...

[Sammakko]

Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k

The right way to make a velocity stack.

he's a brave man, wearing gloves around a running lathe.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

@NotEric6 @nelsmar
Will you be in a position to tell me/us if this manifold will be ok to run without a tune?
I appreciate it would not be optimal but for myself organising a tune takes time*.



*It gets fitted locally then book a tune 350 kms away, organise the wallet, organise time off from my work, the wife's work, stay 2 or 3 nights, yadda yadda.

Honestly with the stock rom and how this ecu handles knock and trims... Just about any NA mod "could" work. But you may and could be losing power at every possible rpm due to knock correction being aggressive and non optimal vvt maps. It would be a waste to not get it done all at once.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

Healthy discussions are healthy.

As for tooling, that's the benefit of CNC machines. Individual changes can be made without having to completely throw out everything you have. Injection molding is a nightmare though.

In the case of plastic plenums, aren't people already pushing 20+ psi? I @Reaper was pushing 19 on the stock everything. If anything, some prefer aluminum for aesthetics, but I do believe that all of the plastic-gonna-blow-up people just don't want to accept the truth. Material is only part of the equation. You have to understand how to properly implement it. I'm really only prodding you guys for what it's worth. Like I said, healthy discussion...

I was running 22-24psi for a while on my manifold without issues. So yes... It holds just fine. But the plastic vs metal debate is really a little excessive. Yes plastic is typically better but due to small market of this unit it would cost probably the same and look less pretty. Remember most cars used to run metal manifolds without issues... lol

[Target70]

if thermal conductivity is an issue with metal, then why not just coat the outside with some form of insulation? Hell you could probably spray it with rubberized undercoating or something similar.

[Shady195]

Originally Posted by Sammakko

he's a brave man, wearing gloves around a running lathe.

The minute I saw him put his hand near the chuck I thought the same damn thing. I had a friend get a finger torn off due to his glove getting grabbed by the piece he was working on and wrapped around it.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I would expect that the velocity of the air inside the manifold pretty much negates any potential for heat soak. The air isn't in contact with the manifold long enough to transfer a significant amount of heat from the metal.

It does. For instant burts of "heated air" no the measurable temp of the Al doesnt increase. Over longer periods of throttle response the longer the air is flowing through he engine the longer the ambient temp of the air is in contact with the intake mani. Hence why aluminum (with its Q heat properties) was chosen. Cost vs heat dispursion.

[Sammakko]

3D print it... out of unobtanium?

[plucas]

Originally Posted by boredom.is.me

Healthy discussions are healthy.

As for tooling, that's the benefit of CNC machines. Individual changes can be made without having to completely throw out everything you have. Injection molding is a nightmare though.

In the case of plastic plenums, aren't people already pushing 20+ psi? I @Reaper was pushing 19 on the stock everything. If anything, some prefer aluminum for aesthetics, but I do believe that all of the plastic-gonna-blow-up people just don't want to accept the truth. Material is only part of the equation. You have to understand how to properly implement it. I'm really only prodding you guys for what it's worth. Like I said, healthy discussion...

The issue with plastic is the initial cost, not strength. We know we can have it injection molded and handle the abuse. Injection molds cost a lot of money. For this manifold, it would be north of $75,000 in the USA. That is honestly not feasible in the aftermarket.

[boredom.is.me]

Originally Posted by Sammakko

3D print it... out of unobtanium?

You missed my point completely.

Originally Posted by plucas

The issue with plastic is the initial cost, not strength. We know we can have it injection molded and handle the abuse. Injection molds cost a lot of money. For this manifold, it would be north of $75,000 in the USA. That is honestly not feasible in the aftermarket.

That's exactly what I said.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by Sammakko

3D print it... out of unobtanium?

Better than using "Upsadasium", the front end is light enough at speed.

[abraxis]

If the grooves are just an aesthetic choice, can you ask the machinist to swap the radial machining on the outside for the interior vertical piping? I know you think it won't matter much, but my inner child's flow bench experience would feel more relieved to actually have a proper laminar orientation.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by abraxis

If the grooves are just an aesthetic choice, can you ask the machinist to swap the radial machining on the outside for the interior vertical piping? I know you think it won't matter much, but my inner child's flow bench experience would feel more relieved to actually have a proper laminar orientation.

*raises hand*
Sorry,I don't understand your question.
You want the red arrow groves orientated like the black lines?