Dealers

[AshWilliams]

Originally Posted by chris@wagnersubaru

But when your car breaks, will the internet fix it?

I'm sure people would still be lining up to do warranty work, and the "quality" your "certified techs" provide costs me twice what my mechanic charges off-warranty, and he doesn't try to screw me by marking up the OEM parts and including in hidden costs on every part of the bill.

You're not that valuable, really, and you're not known for your honesty. I've known people who have sold cars for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and GMC/Chevy. None of their stories have the white knight salesman who just wants people to "get a good deal."

Only stupid people have no idea what goes on behind the doors at a dealership. And forgive me if I walk in telling YOU what I KNOW what the car is worth then you get offended because you feel I should pay you more... because I know you can get more from someone who hasn't done their research.

[DieDriving]

I understand the pain dealing with dealers....not all are like that but unfortunately they are out there....personally, I find it tough for salemen to take me serious while shopping for more expensive cars (bmw, mercedes) just because I'm younger....BMW of Riverside, CA, 2 salemen ignored me while I made my way through the door, the 3rd greeted me, I guessed he got no choice since I'm nearly in front of him.....I can tell he wasn't enthusiastic enough, didn't even opened door or let me sit in the car I was looking at, well I left...
The followed week, Savage BMW in Corona, CA, I was dead set at a "08 M3, after half an hour hanging around, I finally found a saleman not too "busy" to talk to me....I would like a short test drive, and his response is, "you can't test drive it unless you agree to buy the car first"....hmmm, I failed to see his logic...I argued, how the hell would I buy a car w/o touching it first, he said " it is an expensive car so they don't let anyone drives it"....I walked out in front of his face......
Ended up got a 330i from South Bay BMW.....
This was 4 yrs ago so hopefully they changed their practices.

[chris@wagnersubaru]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

I'm sure people would still be lining up to do warranty work, and the "quality" your "certified techs" provide costs me twice what my mechanic charges off-warranty, and he doesn't try to screw me by marking up the OEM parts and including in hidden costs on every part of the bill.

You're not that valuable, really, and you're not known for your honesty. I've known people who have sold cars for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and GMC/Chevy. None of their stories have the white knight salesman who just wants people to "get a good deal."

Only stupid people have no idea what goes on behind the doors at a dealership. And forgive me if I walk in telling YOU what I KNOW what the car is worth then you get offended because you feel I should pay you more... because I know you can get more from someone who hasn't done their research.

You've once again proven one of my points.

You have a major chip on your shoulder.

You never answered my question either....

What do you do for a living?

Do you deal with the public?

Do you feel whatever service you provide is 100% without flaw, and do you treat everyone you deal with the same way?

Unfortunately it makes you look arrogant or ignorant or both spouting off some of the BS you're coming up with.

I'm not offended by remarks personally.

I know there are a lot of bad apples out there that give us a bad name.

I'm surprised at the stories I hear about others' in my profession.

But for you to call me not valuable and to have a better than thou attitude speaks greatly about your character and I don't know you either.....I just know your "Type"

Thanks for playing.

[Ochtó-Sé]

Originally Posted by chris@wagnersubaru

You've once again proven one of my points.

You have a major chip on your shoulder.

...

I just know your "Type"

Thanks for playing.

You're really making yourself look bad here.

[russv]

Originally Posted by DieDriving

I understand the pain dealing with dealers....not all are like that but unfortunately they are out there....personally, I find it tough for salemen to take me serious while shopping for more expensive cars (bmw, mercedes) just because I'm younger....BMW of Riverside, CA, 2 salemen ignored me while I made my way through the door, the 3rd greeted me, I guessed he got no choice since I'm nearly in front of him.....I can tell he wasn't enthusiastic enough, didn't even opened door or let me sit in the car I was looking at, well I left...
The followed week, Savage BMW in Corona, CA, I was dead set at a "08 M3, after half an hour hanging around, I finally found a saleman not too "busy" to talk to me....I would like a short test drive, and his response is, "you can't test drive it unless you agree to buy the car first"....hmmm, I failed to see his logic...I argued, how the hell would I buy a car w/o touching it first, he said " it is an expensive car so they don't let anyone drives it"....I walked out in front of his face......
Ended up got a 330i from South Bay BMW.....
This was 4 yrs ago so hopefully they changed their practices.

I used to live in Riverside and wanted to buy a 3 series from them, a 91 318is 2 door. They said they would call me when one came in. The called and it was a 4 door. I went on a test drive anyway and the salesman immediately took it to redline in first gear with a stone cold engine. I ended up buying one from a dealer in Orange county.

[Spd229]

I was going to post about all my experiences while car shopping up until now but it ended up getting a bit too long and turned more into a rant.

There's good and bad with both customers and dealers, that's just the way it goes. Same with any other trade.

I've been ignored for an hour, given a markup to scare me off, pressured by a manager to buy, or given the runaround due to my age. I've had to fight tooth and nail to get discounts on a vehicle that I knew were available, going so far as to require paperwork to prove they even exist....I don't see the point in being treated as though I know nothing.

Fortunately I found a dealer that's professional, even if they don't know anything about the car. He's been up front about the guesses and things he has heard along the way, rather than act as though they're fact. Living in the SE it's nothing new to find out there's no information about something new.

I can certainly understand the rough feelings on both sides of the equation. I can also understand why people think dealers are trying to rob them blind, it's certainly true that prices can be unreasonably high. We aren't entitled to a vehicle for free nor is a dealer entitled to rip us a new one; the same goes for service from a dealership, aside from a normal $20ish oil change the numbers don't really add up given the resources available in some cases.

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by Ochtó-Sé

You're really making yourself look bad here.

I don't think so. Chris asks some valid questions and makes some good points while the other poster only respond with extreme hostility and bashing.

Although nothing good can come of this thread. It's a touchy subject bordering on insulting to many car salespeople (and we do have several here), especially someone who prides themselves on their service. They will feel the need to defend themselves, and flames ensue.

for those of us who have been on this forum we've all seen this subject many times over, and now we have no new info and are on our thumbs waiting for our cars. It gives us lots of time to kill and fan these flames.

For the love of all that's good and the respect of our fellow car enthusiast...

/thread
/lock

...please?

[chris@wagnersubaru]

Yes...

And today/this month happens to be slow.....so I have time to screw around on the web.

With that said, I have a BRZ on the lot right now that can be seen and bought and I have another on the way for immediate delivery upon arrival.

With the exception of the BRZ, ANY car I have in stock I'll sell for $500 under invoice.

If someone is willing to beat my offer I'll politely pass on it.

I don't have an F&I manager and I appraise trades.

A customer deals with me from the minute they walk on the lot to signing papers and being a satisfied customer.

I am the 1% that defies the stereotype....hell, I even have hair down my back.

I sell a great product and I'm a good fit with it and the customers we serve.

[AshWilliams]

Originally Posted by chris@wagnersubaru

With the exception of the BRZ, ANY car I have in stock I'll sell for $500 under invoice.

Why won't you sell the BRZ for 500 under invoice?

Subaru, your manager, some nebulous entity won't "let" you sell your car for a reasonable price? Or you realized you can make more on a single BRZ than a handful of Outbacks because dumb/rich people WILL pay what they believe is a reasonable markup?

For a while I was in charge for fleet purchases for a small real estate company, so I've dealt with just about every kind of dealer out there. I don't like to see motive, but someone trawling message boards of a car that is in VERY limited supply and offering "an honest deal and friendly service..."

[thill]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

Why won't you sell the BRZ for 500 under invoice?

Subaru, your manager, some nebulous entity won't "let" you sell your car for a reasonable price? Or you realized you can make more on a single BRZ than a handful of Outbacks because dumb/rich people WILL pay what they believe is a reasonable markup?

For a while I was in charge for fleet purchases for a small real estate company, so I've dealt with just about every kind of dealer out there. I don't like to see motive, but someone trawling message boards of a car that is in VERY limited supply and offering "an honest deal and friendly service..."

Supply and demand my friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

If you want to pay a lower price you will need to wait until supply catches up with demand.

I mean it is this way with almost every single commodity on the market, why should cars be different?

[mines13]

Originally Posted by thill

Supply and demand my friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

If you want to pay a lower price you will need to wait until supply catches up with demand.

I mean it is this way with almost every single commodity on the market, why should cars be different?

Seriously, selling the car for LESS then MSRP at this point in the game would be anything but "reasonable" If they are not marking it up, I would say the dealer is being very fair. I believe thill summed it up pretty well. To expect more at this time would be quite unreasonable.

[chris@wagnersubaru]

Originally Posted by AshWilliams

Why won't you sell the BRZ for 500 under invoice?

Subaru, your manager, some nebulous entity won't "let" you sell your car for a reasonable price? Or you realized you can make more on a single BRZ than a handful of Outbacks because dumb/rich people WILL pay what they believe is a reasonable markup?

For a while I was in charge for fleet purchases for a small real estate company, so I've dealt with just about every kind of dealer out there. I don't like to see motive, but someone trawling message boards of a car that is in VERY limited supply and offering "an honest deal and friendly service..."

What you just said really doesn't make sense, but here goes....I'll respond to you one more time to clear the air.

You never did say what you do now, but let's take your real estate experience.

You dealt with the public and worked long hours....even weekends.
(did you ever have someone have you wait around to never show up, or show up hours late?)

Houses, like cars, are one of the only retail purchases in the market people negotiate a price on.....nothing else we buy is like this.

Normally, you see something you want, you find out where to get it, and you pay the price that's asked.

A good deal is only a good deal in the eye of the beholder.

Some of my most satisfied customers are the ones that appreciate good customer service and actually gave me a little gross on the deal...after all, the dealership isn't a non-profit and I have bills to pay like everyone else.

On the other hand, a lot of people that come in and drive hundreds of miles and spend countless hours on the internet are the most skeptical and hardest people to satisfy.

You can do everything perfectly and they'll still trash you on your CSI (customer satisfaction score)

Profit is not a dirty word

Businesses exist to make this word called profit, and even before this came to be, people traded livestock and services for things they needed.

You do the same doing whatever it is you do to get a paycheck.....and perpetuate this further by buying things you need and want as a result.

SO, For the same reason that a dealer will drop their pants on any given model because of the herd mentality (Deep discounts) is the same reason they all take advantage of the market when a car is high in demand and short in supply....it's economics 101.

MOST dealers are marking the BRZ up over MSRP....this is a fact.

If you want to wait a year or two and buy one for invoice or under you can do that too.

That's why you pay $8 for a 12-16 oz beer at a game or concert or more for gas around toll roads and tourist traps.

Supply and demand.

The BRZ on my lot only has $1168 mark-up from invoice to MSRP anyways....
Nobody is getting rich off car sales...

Do you think this is an unfair mark-up for a big ticket item?

So based on that I get 25% of the mark-up ($292) and taxed at @ 30% I see about $100 from the deal......which is about twice the amount I make on a Mini
(a car sold at or under invoice with no profit to me outside of what the dealer gets)

There are a lot of products out there that have 500% plus mark-up and people don't bat an eye at paying it because it's not the norm to beat up your jeweler for example?


Last but not least, I'm on these boards for the same reason I presume you are.... (not to be a troll) Because I like cars....I just happen to make my living off of them too.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by chris@wagnersubaru

So based on that I get 25% of the mark-up ($292) and taxed at @ 30% I see about $100 from the deal......which is about twice the amount I make on a Mini(a car sold at or under invoice with no profit to me outside of what the dealer gets)

Fuzzy math.

$292 with 30% taken out for taxes is $204. You're making more than double what you claimed. I just gave you a raise!



Also, if you make nothing off invoice sales why do you sell "With the exception of the BRZ, ANY car I have in stock I'll sell for $500 under invoice."???

So, the BRZ is the only vehicle on your lot that you personally profit from? Everything else you sell is for pleasure?

[Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by chris@wagnersubaru

You've once again proven one of my points.

You have a major chip on your shoulder.

You never answered my question either....

What do you do for a living?

Do you deal with the public?

Do you feel whatever service you provide is 100% without flaw, and do you treat everyone you deal with the same way?

Unfortunately it makes you look arrogant or ignorant or both spouting off some of the BS you're coming up with.

I'm not offended by remarks personally.

I know there are a lot of bad apples out there that give us a bad name.

I'm surprised at the stories I hear about others' in my profession.

But for you to call me not valuable and to have a better than thou attitude speaks greatly about your character and I don't know you either.....I just know your "Type"

Thanks for playing.