PLM Long Tube Header

[celek]

IF YOU WANT TO BUY 3 or 4 OF THESE when they break after 1000 miles go for it. you would be stupid to buy this knockoff.
Google search PLM Header cracked.
The Honda market has been dealing with this joker for years. They are US based having stuff made in China.

The Stainless material is 1/2 the wall thickness, poor welds, AND IT RUSTS!!!! The nickle content is not high enough in the Alloy to prevent rust and the carbon content is too high resulting in fracturing of the steel.

He are some pics below. There are tons on the net.
If you think I am just dogging this product, I can tell you I owned the Bisi knockoff on a ITR. It made LESS power than a DC sports 4-1 header which was 1/2 the cost so after it cracked in 2 months I threw it out.

The guys at Nameless, like it has been said above me took over a year of R&D and several revisions and Dyno testing to get the best result and fitment in a factory car.
This company just copies hard work and uses cheap materials.

I bet the welding is not back purged so it can oxidize and does not have the same merge collectors and flow numbers.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MGTq0QHWCQ"]Guaranteed piece of crap! - YouTube[/ame]

[ZOMFGAARON]

Originally Posted by Cross

Not yet I have been putting the car back together but I will have it installed by this weekend. The catch is I need to make a 3" Overpipe as my 2.5" we made will not fit correctly so I will have to change that which will happen Monday morning.



Then I will take it on a 200+ Mile round trip to Phoenix that same day so I should be able to give a good review on it.

Can't wait for your review!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[celek]

Originally Posted by interna

I was curious about this actually. Im probably ordering the header today and most likely going to source a nameless 3" over/front pipe.

Let me know how the install goes and what results you are looking at.

I got $100 that says the Nameless 3" over pipe does not fit on this PLM

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I didn't realize that Japan was a country with horrible labour standards and quality.

My bad.

I don't think the Business Practices of Japan are to be found held in high esteem, nor for excellent treatment of workers. But it's a completely different culture so judging it from this side of the fence is quite easy.

When you say "Buy Local" it seems like a "Buy where I live, in the USA" so that does seem to contradict. Frankly a great example is Apple. They used to build solely in the USA and are known for excellent build quality. They obviously stopped when they realized it was not profitable.
When asked by our current president what it would take to get those jobs back Steve Job's told him (obviously before he died) that was not going to happen.
Now this would delve deeply into the way businesses are treated here, tax laws, greed and so much more. However the main point is that just because a product comes from else where than "Local" does not make it horrible right off the bat, you buying a Japanese car is an example.

The thing that I find interesting is Nameless themselves said pricing the header closer to PLM's price was the difference between design and R&D of other variations. But that means as those products sell the R&D is paid back and they can get to that lower price point as sales happen.

Originally Posted by Ryan@Nameless

You get a $500 header when you take away 11 prototypes and a year's worth of R&D and testing.

However Major Corporations, the Government all of them realize that R&D is not always paid back. They work towards a goal and sometimes it fails, Military Projects can be a great example of this as can even Video Game Systems to go a completely opposite direction and perspective.

However at some point the choice must be made to compete with those who will run the same direction with less work or try and make more money selling less because of the claims of R&D costs.

I threw out the idea that Nameless take the market by pricing their header at 800. They would still be making more than the 550 price point that they said could be close to met if not met without the R&D so they would still be putting back into that fund but frankly they would get more attention which would result in more sales.

Now think about this, what if there were no copies? What if only specific companies did the work and priced things as they saw fit and prices never dropped because no one copied sounds like a great idea right? Or would the market stagnate because the price points would not change and there was no reason to compete? Now it's the consumer getting taken advantage of because even Nameless said the 550 price point was possible.

When you think of a company taking a year to make a product your first thought it tons of work right? Well how often on any project do you work non-stop? What about waiting on test results, parts to be ordered and show up, having to finish other projects inbetween? What about the desire when you own say an automotive company to make parts for your vehicle that you want to play with? Is it really just R&D for the purpose of selling or is it because you want to make something and then offer it to others if they want it?
There is a lot more to all of that R&D than just, we paid employee's to work on this and nothing else for a year, not many companies can afford that esp. in the Automotive Aftermarket Community. Many do it for themselves and on their own time then sell it.
With that in mind those that give away their work for free to help the community should be gods where as those who charge are jerks looking to make money off others right? Or is it just the difference in views on how they want to conduct themselves? (I am in no way saying Nameless did this just to be 100% clear this is all just a for thought conversation and comparison)

There are so many different ways to look at all of this none of them are singled out for being right and there is far more to learn the more you look. However dealing in absolutes pretty much ensures you narrow your view point missing anything else.

[zooki]

Originally Posted by celek

I got $100 that says the Nameless 3" over pipe does not fit on this PLM

If it doesn't, does that mean this header isn't an exact copy of the Nameless header? Or just poor quality control? I seem to remember reading some threads about how people were having problems with even the high end headers fitting correctly, and how they had to loosen every connection, pull,or push the piping a certain direction, and re tighten the connections in a certain order. No company is immune from problems. One of the tips on my Nameless axle back split open. I emailed the company and sent pics, but haven't heard back in a few days. Hopefully they'll make it right.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by wparsons

That's the worst (and most incorrect) over simplification I've seen on here. If you honestly think primary/secondary diameter and length don't matter you should just give up talking about this kind of stuff.

Peak hp doesn't matter except to someone bragging about dyno numbers, area under the curve makes a car fast, and maximizing that takes A LOT more than just removing the cat from the stock manifold.

Design also plays a huge part. 4-2-1 headers make better midrange but give up a bit of top end, 4-1 will have better top end but fall short in the midrange. What matters more depends on how/where you're driving it.

Of course it was an oversimplification but not uncorrect (in our cars case) as you suggest.
The stock header design of our car is actually a very decent design and there have been a few people who gutted the cat and picked up some very good gains.

Of course there is always going to be differences in gains based on design but you are making it out to be a huge difference.

Here are two great examples. OFH vs Nameless. 4-1 vs 4-2-1 and completely different designs. Look at the dynos, do you see drastic differences?

OFH which can be had for <=$650 (even as little as 550 when bundled with a tune).


Nameless which is $1200

[raven1231]

Say what you want but most people buying a 25k car aren't effing rich and can't afford $3000 exhausts, $2000 rims, or $3000 plastic body pieces.


I have the following replica products and it's because of these offerings that I was even able to mod my car to begin with. I cannot afford most of the name brand products, as a broke grad student and retail store manager, nor would I buy them if I could. Again this is an FR-S not a damn GT-R.


Replica aka cheap knock off products made by the antichrist from which I stole them from


Manzo over pipe
Manzo front pipe
Ikonmotorsports exhaust
Bason R diffuser
XXR 530 rims


I have had zero issues with any of these and if they break 5-10 years down the road, well I won't have the car then anyway so I really don't care as they served their purpose.

[celek]

Originally Posted by zooki

If it doesn't, does that mean this header isn't an exact copy of the Nameless header? Or just poor quality control? I seem to remember reading some threads about how people were having problems with even the high end headers fitting correctly, and how they had to loosen every connection, pull,or push the piping a certain direction, and re tighten the connections in a certain order. No company is immune from problems. One of the tips on my Nameless axle back split open. I emailed the company and sent pics, but haven't heard back in a few days. Hopefully they'll make it right.

It took me 2 hours yes 2 hours to get the PLM bolted on my Honda 4 years ago.
My build was clean and perfectly accessible too.
And then the header broke and I thew it away Poor Quality, Poor Quality control, Poor Materials, #poorboyracingparts only make you more poor do it right the first time.

[Cole]

@tennisfreak what I do see is the OFH making better numbers at half the price.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Cole

@tennisfreak what I do see is the OFH making better numbers at half the price.

That's on e85 IIRC.
The Nameless isn't.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

That's on e85 IIRC.
The Nameless isn't.

Yes you are correct. I just grabbed each companies dyno chart they posted and the OFH is on E85.

While it makes to overall numbers appear larger for the OFH that is not what I was trying to demonstrate.

I was trying to show the torque and HP curves and how similar they are even though the header designs are drastically different.

On pump gas the OFH can pull mid 180 hp all day long.

People make to big a stink about header design trying to justify some of these super high dollar headers and when it comes down to it you can get something at a fraction of the price that will perform similar.

Hell I can get a OFT+OFH and still come out >100 cheaper than with a Nameless or other super high dollar header.

So for those that dont want to spend a fortune and buy cheap stuff like this PLM more power to them as I would not spend a shit load on a header either.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

Yes you are correct. I just grabbed each companies dyno chart they posted and the OFH is on E85.

While it makes to overall numbers appear larger for the OFH that is not what I was trying to demonstrate.

I was trying to show the torque and HP curves and how similar they are even though the header designs are drastically different.

On pump gas the OFH can pull mid 180 hp all day long.

People make to big a stink about header design trying to justify some of these super high dollar headers and when it comes down to it you can get something at a fraction of the price that will perform similar.

Hell I can get a OFT+OFH and still come out >100 cheaper than with a Nameless or other super high dollar header.

So for those that dont want to spend a fortune and buy cheap stuff like this PLM more power to them as I would not spend a shit load on a header either.

This is not a cheap vs expensive debate.

It's about knock off vs original. I've made the point before that PLM was more than capable of jigging up the stock manifold and getting fairly typical results.

Instead they directly ripped off a product designed to address the torque dip everyone complained about. Torque surges at 3500 and it maintains good peak numbers without resorting to E85 tunes. Yet people were underwhelmed.

If Nameless is too expensive buy the OFH. Decent gains, low cost, good support, not a knockoff.

[cdrazic93]

[burdickjp]

Originally Posted by Dimman

If Nameless is too expensive buy the OFH. Decent gains, low cost, good support, not a knockoff.

Tomei manifolds are also good and not expensive.