The Sports of Toyota 86

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

Is the midlife refresh really just months away?

is heel toe really possible?in my experience with Toyota cars, the brake pedal, Is higher than the gas pedal and it's really difficult and uncomfortable to angle your foot to heel toe.

&I love how they stuck with the 2+2.

I agree. The stock pedals are horrendous for heel toe.

C7:
http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/ch...121313_600.jpg

FRS:
http://www.scion.com/images/cars/frs...rtPedalsMT.jpg

The brakes need to be lowered and the gas pedal needs to be longer and extend to the left more.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

I'm bitter with Toyota's reluctance to truly improve this platform over time (a touchscreen head unit and shark fin is hardly groundbreaking),

C'mon Toyota, balance my ass...the car should be a tad faster. Change the final drive, tweak the ecu, make the heads freer flowing, we don't need 40 more hp, just something a bit more from the factory...

The addition of the touchscreen is sort of going in the opposite direction.
I think they could get away with remapping or possibly slightly larger displacement...

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Longest "refresh-rumor" post ever.

I thought you were on my side, lol

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Nice writeup - I learned a few things. A couple of minor comments though:

1) Our cars don't actually reach 53/47 weight distribution without a driver and passenger.

2) The part about having a lower CD than a 458, while true, is a bit misleading. The 458 was designed to produce downforce at speed (140 kg downforce @ 200 kph). I believe the 911 turbo produces downforce as well. In comparison, the BRZ produces slight lift at speed (25 lbs F / 35 lbs R @ 70 mph). Designing downforce usually introduces drag, so the CD numbers for the Ferrari and Porsche are partly a product of design compromises.

Thanks for adding this, I'll fix the weight distribution to include the occupants. Is it just the driver, or does it include the passenger?

Originally Posted by AsianStyle

I agree. The stock pedals are horrendous for heel toe.
The brakes need to be lowered and the gas pedal needs to be longer and extend to the left more.

On the 86, I believe the gas pedal is longer extending lower to the floor, but the US models get a smaller pedal.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

is heel toe really possible?in my experience with Toyota cars, the brake pedal, Is higher than the gas pedal and it's really difficult and uncomfortable to angle your foot to heel toe.

It's definitely possible. You can either use your heel to blip the throttle, or the right side of your toes.

I actually find it much easier in this car than in some other cars I've had. With my old STI, the transmission tunnel blocked your heel so you had to blip with the right side of your foot. But with the FR-S, I can use either method and it works.

Originally Posted by FRSupra

Thanks for adding this, I'll fix the weight distribution to include the occupants. Is it just the driver, or does it include the passenger?

No occupants: 55-45
Driver only: 54-46
Driver + passenger: 53-47

[8R6]

i never realized the 4 black squares in the 86 badge was to represent a car in drift. that's pretty cool.

and the "high mount" center brake light idea is pretty thoughtful regarding aftermarket spoilers and makes me not hate it as much... but i still dont like it. lol

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

The addition of the touchscreen is sort of going in the opposite direction.
I think they could get away with remapping or possibly slightly larger displacement...



I thought you were on my side, lol



Thanks for adding this, I'll fix the weight distribution to include the occupants. Is it just the driver, or does it include the passenger?



On the 86, I believe the gas pedal is longer extending lower to the floor, but the US models get a smaller pedal.

Wow, is that true? I would have ordered a set to install if I knew. I ended up buying the cusco pedal, which helps but still not the best. I believe the pre-production models had a different/better pedal.

Cusco Pedal:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5341/cuscopedals.jpg

Pre-production Pedal:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7061/6...9f8d00d7_b.jpg

Oh just found confirmation here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=54

JDM pedals are the same as US spec pedals.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

^obviously didn't read

Better than you did, is my guess. "So with an mid-life refresh months away" is mere speculation. Awful long rehash of the FR-S/BRZ to get to that point.

[Rookie84]

I stopped reading after this point:

AERODYNAMIC ENGINEERING.
The aerodynamic design of the 86 is the result of lessons learned in Toyota's Motorsports experience, including F1.
With a coefficient of drag (Cd) of .27, the 86 is slicker than supercars like the Porsche 911 Turbo (.31) and the
Ferrari F458 (.33).

Like DarkSunrise has mentioned, those cars create downforce at speed hence the relatively higher Cd #s.

They state "numbers can't define this car" yet they go and compare a number in order to say "at least the 86 is better than 458 and 911 turbo in this!!"

Pathetic.

[Ponwh]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Better than you did, is my guess. "So with an mid-life refresh months away" is mere speculation. Awful long rehash of the FR-S/BRZ to get to that point.

Guess you did comprehend the post better. the midlife refresh is obviously the whole purpose.

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Better than you did, is my guess. "So with an mid-life refresh months away" is mere speculation. Awful long rehash of the FR-S/BRZ to get to that point.

You have completely the wrong idea about what I was trying to do here. And if you know anything about Toyota, three years in usually brings refresh to the current platform. I'm not talking about a second generation.

Originally Posted by Rookie84

They state "numbers can't define this car" yet they go and compare a number in order to say "at least the 86 is better than 458 and 911 turbo in this!!"

Pathetic.

uh what? The Aerodynamic styling of the car has a better Cd. No one is saying one car is better than another.

[Who8myrice]

Not sure about refreshed frs model.
We already have idea about Tacoma and Prius but I haven't seen anything about frs.
I will ask Toyota rep on next Toyota meeting

[bcj]

"Sound Creator"



Gag!

[Rookie84]

Originally Posted by FRSupra

uh what? The Aerodynamic styling of the car has a better Cd. No one is saying one car is better than another.

But why compare to such expensive sports cars that actually produce downforce at speed thus having higher Cd? There isn't any actual benefit in performance due to this lower Cd because 1. it means the car will be unstable at high speeds and 2. it is not like 86 is trying to set the top speed record. The only benefit that I can think of is lower gas mileage. If Porsche and Ferrari wanted to make their cars' Cd as low as possible, they would have found ways to do it for sure.

I really find it silly that they bring up cars like 458 and 911 turbo, anyway.

[nikitopo]

I think you are mixing two different things. The drag coefficient is one thing and the downforce is another. In fact, you can increase the downforce without increasing the drag coefficient. The Cd is only relevant with the drag coefficient.

[Rookie84]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think you are mixing two different things. The drag coefficient is one thing and the downforce is another. In fact, you can increase the downforce without increasing the drag coefficient. The Cd is only relevant with the drag coefficient.

Cd (coefficient of drag) is drag coefficient. You are writing like Cd and drag coefficient are two different things.

It is certainly possible but only to a point. There is no fixed relationship but they are related together as far as I understand.

F1 cars have Cd of 0.9+. This is because they have such an enormous amount of down force. With DRS open, the number drops down some to 0.8x range.

If designing a car with low Cd but with high down force were possible, don't you think F1 cars or any other racing cars would have lower Cd values?