Scion FT-86 FR-S

[nate89]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Are you saying that the tC is totally useless as a performance platform to build from?

Because I can't agree with that.

I think what he's saying is that dragonitti is saying he beats z06's, miata's, etc in his "stock" tc, and therefore a better car. But if you stick a crappy driver behind the wheel of a gtr and you drive a miata, chances are you will win. Does that mean a miata is a better car? No. Does that mean the miata is stupid and not worth buying/modifying? No. You can't substitute driving ability with the car's ability (you can in a race, but not when comparing two cars apples to apples). Dragonitti is saying his tc is fast be cause he's a good driver, but if he take a lap in a stock tc, and a gtr, his times will be completely different.

To sum it up, what dimman is saying is just to compare things on the same level instead of making up stuff.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by nate89

I think what he's saying is that dragonitti is saying he beats z06's, miata's, etc in his "stock" tc, and therefore a better car. But if you stick a crappy driver behind the wheel of a gtr and you drive a miata, chances are you will win. Does that mean a miata is a better car? No. Does that mean the miata is stupid and not worth buying/modifying? No. You can't substitute driving ability with the car's ability (you can in a race, but not when comparing two cars apples to apples). Dragonitti is saying his tc is fast be cause he's a good driver, but if he take a lap in a stock tc, and a gtr, his times will be completely different.

To sum it up, what dimman is saying is just to compare things on the same level instead of making up stuff.

Thanks nate for a better clarification.
sigh...

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by nate89

I think what he's saying is that ti dragonitis saying he beats z06's, miata's, etc in his "stock" tc, and therefore a better car. But if you stick a crappy driver behind the wheel of a gtr and you drive a miata, chances are you will win. Does that mean a miata is a better car? No. Does that mean the miata is stupid and not worth buying/modifying? No. You can't substitute driving ability with the car's ability (you can in a race, but not when comparing two cars apples to apples). Dragonitti is saying his tc is fast be cause he's a good driver, but if he take a lap in a stock tc, and a gtr, his times will be completely different.

To sum it up, what dimman is saying is just to compare things on the same level instead of making up stuff.

Wrong....Read what I wrote again. If I want to say a tC is a better car.....then I will say "A tC is a better car". But I didn't say that, because that's not how I think.

[Dragonitti]

And what you guys described truly only works in a Stock vs Modded or Stock vs Stock situation. What if both cars are modded and driven by both capable drivers?

What say You in this situation?

R35 GTR making 600-700whp (so it's not stock obviously), and is driven by Shariff who has set lap records in NASA Time Trials as well as taken home victories in Redline Time Attack trying to chase Rado in his FWD tC.

To Extreme enough of a tC? I know some of you will say that.

So, how about a less extreme tC driven by a well capable driver like Shariff in the FP GTR pushing less than 600-700 in this vid, but still not stock HP nor stock in form nor are the Takata STI, and DSG Imprezza in this vid. Lap times are posted in the vid...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Are you saying that the tC is totally useless as a performance platform to build from?

Because I can't agree with that.

What I'm saying is that he is using his driving skill as evidence that the tC is a great car. It's a mediocre platform. Not terrible, not wonderful. Typical Toyota appliance.

I'm not implying that he thinks the tC is better than a Z06 either, just because he can out-lap one. That would be insane.

He seems pretty hung-up on his Initial-D type scenario where his car gets no respect, and because he's a good driver in it, can beat higher class cars, and has put a lot of work into it, it's an awesome platform. It's not.

It's a slightly less than 3000 lbs FWD Toyota coupe with 160hp, MacPherson struts in the front, multi-link in the back, with an open diff. That is all. Nothing epic about it. A lightweight 2 door Camry.

He's put work into it, he can drive well. Good for him. Platform is still 'meh'.

[Dragonitti]

Yo Dimman...See post above about that "meh" platform. Pretty good for a car that started life as a 3000lb, FWD Toyota with 160hp no? Pretty sad that it's also running the same or better lap times than a car that started life with more into it from birth.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Yo Dimman...See post above about that "meh" platform. Pretty good for a car that started life as a 3000lb, FWD Toyota with 160hp no? Pretty sad that it's also running the same or better lap times than a car that started life with more into it from birth.

Again, you are missing the point. If they had done everything they did to a Corolla XRS or a Camry SE instead of the tC, how different would the results be? Not much.

The base car's platform is 'meh'. How long did you putt around in your car bone-stock before you though: 'This sucks, I gotta fix this thing up.' (Coilovers, anti-roll bars, bracing, camber plates, wheels and tires, turbo, etc...)?

[70NYD]

@Calais yeah man I knew a few greeks when I was younger. That's the only thing I remember but haha. I think it means along the lines of hi bro (although koum sounds like best man in yugo)

In regards to comparing different cars, you simply can't validly compare two different cars driven by two different drivers.. You can use SAME car to compare different drivers, or SAME driver to compare different cars..
Dragonniti, you have been met with some hostility because there are so many ethugs that make up crap all the time.. I'm not doubting that your tc is a great handling car, but that doesn't make the stock tc a great car.. My 323f handles like a boat in stock form and has a piece of shit engine.. I did absolutely nothing to the engine since I would need 10k to get anywhere, but I did spend half that on suspension and the car takes corners better than my friends evo with active suspension.. I did a 1.1G on a street corner with street tires without pushing it.. But does that make a stock 323f a good car? Fuck no only old women (who bought it new) and young women (who got it from their parents lol) drive the car in stock form..
I'm not doubting that YOUR tc can run laps fine, but I think you will miss my point again..
Difference at the track and at the forum is that everyone can see everyones cars and they know they Arent full of shit

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Again, you are missing the point. If they had done everything they did to a Corolla XRS or a Camry SE instead of the tC, how different would the results be? Not much.

The base car's platform is 'meh'. How long did you putt around in your car bone-stock before you though: 'This sucks, I gotta fix this thing up.' (Coilovers, anti-roll bars, bracing, camber plates, wheels and tires, turbo, etc...)?

Actually I think it's you who keeps missing the point. And quite frankly I don't know how many more ways I can say it to you. So, keep hating on the Scion brand or whatever it is you want to call it, or not giving the guys credit where credit is due...fine by me.

I'll keep making vids smashing on cars that I'm not suppose to....since you know...those cars are much better than mine is from the factory. I have many match ups that even I didn't think would turn out in my favor. She didn't let me down though and for that I will always be proud of what I have built and stand by it and my words.

If my thoughts have even given you even an Ounce of new found thought on it, then I have at least made something of my time in this thread.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Actually I think it's you who keeps missing the point. And quite frankly I don't know how many more ways I can say it to you. So, keep hating on the Scion brand or whatever it is you want to call it, or not giving the guys credit where credit is due...fine by me.

I'll keep making vids smashing on cars that I'm not suppose to....since you know...those cars are much better than mine is from the factory. I have many match ups that even I didn't think would turn out in my favor. She didn't let me down though and for that I will always be proud of what I have built and stand by it and my words.

If my thoughts have even given you even an Ounce of new found thought on it, then I have at least made something of my time in this thread.

You are a misguided fanboy.

You love playing Initial-D, giantkiller, but don't get it that it's not the car that is getting it done.

The only evidence you use to support this car are ones that have probably doubled the price of the car in mods at a minimum and god knows how many dollars went into Rado's car... You can throw a ton of money at any car and it will be fast.

And you're avoiding my question of how long you drove it stock before you got epically bored of it and threw a shitload of money at it to make it fun.

God, it's like the damn swapped Civic guys of years gone...

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

You are a misguided fanboy.

You love playing Initial-D, giantkiller, but don't get it that it's not the car that is getting it done.

The only evidence you use to support this car are ones that have probably doubled the price of the car in mods at a minimum and god knows how many dollars went into Rado's car... You can throw a ton of money at any car and it will be fast.

And you're avoiding my question of how long you drove it stock before you got epically bored of it and threw a shitload of money at it to make it fun.

God, it's like the damn swapped Civic guys of years gone...

Misguided? I'm the one who is Misguided? BHAHAHA! You provide no valid points that make sense dude. You simply are trying your best to not give props to something because you hate it's STOCK performance. You try and write off my track vids as all driver skill yet I have Street races (which require no skill) beating more expensive higher build cost cars. I guess my street races were all driver to (despite it requires no skills to win in a street race). And the Time Attack cars are All stock vs Modded tCs, and every car I've raced against was all stock as well (end sarcasm)....Hell even the 300zx Twin turbo pushing 380whp, or the Procharged Stang GT pushing 440whp that I beat were stock too, and I just out drove them in a straight line on the interstate....LOL. Yeah those were all just me driving and the car has NO potential whatsoever, and sucks stock and modded all at the same time. You win bud.

FYI....This is my second tC. The second one came to be boosted by way of winning a Drag competition held by ZPI Racing (no longer in business now).

How long it remained stock is irrelevant based on the point I have already made pages back....."I don't drive ANYTHING stock nor care about Stock unless it's a Freakin Supercar". If I had an R35 GTR, and the money to mod it after spending $70k+ on it....guess what, it wouldn't remain stock either before I wanted more power. If people with higher grade cars enjoyed them in completely stock form then cars like the Switzer P700 and P800 R35 GTR wouldn't even exist....

I'm not someone who gives 2 craps about Stock cars performance when you can always make them better, so come up with a better argument than "It sucks stock".

[Calais]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

@Calais yeah man I knew a few greeks when I was younger. That's the only thing I remember but haha. I think it means along the lines of hi bro (although koum sounds like best man in yugo)

yeop means the same thing in greek

[Franisco]

Is this guy really arguing that his econobox TC is anything more than that?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Franisco

Is this guy really arguing that his econobox TC is anything more than that?

I think there is a small amount of progress being made. He has admitted that it doesn't matter to him how badly it performs stock, as he will mod it (any car he owns apparently) to fit his needs, never driving it stock.

This basically negates the value of any of his opinion regarding factory cars.

For the rest of us, we would much prefer something that doesn't need to be modded right off the showroom as most of us that will mod our cars in the future, aren't willing to drop $10k on a new car just to not hate the car we drive in the meantime.

Never even bothered getting into a 'value' argument about throwing mod dollars down the resale toilet...

He's also really not doing the pro-Scion FT/R-86/S camp any favours by reinforcing a lot of the stereotypes.

Maybe it's some clever pro-Toyota reverse psychology?