Has The Affordable RWD Sports Coupe Become A Money Loser?

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

What in sam hell is a Puma?!

Small Brazilian sports car.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

What in sam hell is a Puma?!

Since this is a thread about lightweight rwd cars, I thought vw puma:



... or the vehicle from halo

[DAEMANO]

Auto Mfgs have goals for each model outside of straight sales volume. Some are Halo cars, others are line-up fillers, or market exploration, etc etc.

Here's an example, guess what car is going to be refreshed for 2016?

The Honda CR-Z
http://www.newcarnewsandreviews.com/2016-honda-cr-z/

Built on the Civic platform this time around. Honda still recognizes having a small sporty coupe as essential to their lineup. Look at the sales volume numbers below. Guess what, the twins absolutely destroy these sales numbers. So it doesn't matter what a journalist or some random forum poster believe a MFGs goals to be. If the MFG says they're making a 2nd gen car, they're probably going to make it.

Honda CR-Z Sales numbers through 2014 copypasta
2010
August - 694 (7 selling days)
September - 1236
October - 1419
November - 1024
December - 876
Total sold during 2010: 5,249

2011
January - 894
February - 1091
March - 1,685
April - 1,819
May. - 1557
June - 996
July - 878
August - 745
September - 537
October - 289
November - 305
December - 564
TOTAL sold during 2011: 11,360

2012
January - 363
February - 466
March - 536
April - 334
May - 296
June - 409
July - 330
August - 392
September - 335
October - 244
November - 244
December - 243
Total CRZs sold during 2012: 4,192

2013
January - 358
February - 381
March - 451
April - 405
May - 427
June - 393
July - 384
August - 483
September - 264
October - 325
November - 295
December - 384
Total CRZs sold during 2013: 4,550

2014
January - 267
February - 318
March - 354
April - 369
May - 389
June - 302
July - 356
August - 342
September - 248
October - 205
November - 188
December -
Total CRZs sold during 2014: 3,338

TOTAL CRZs sold since introduction: 28,689

[gtslow]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Auto Mfgs have goals for each model outside of straight sales volume. Some are Halo cars, others are line-up fillers, or market exploration, etc etc.

Here's an example, guess what car is going to be refreshed for 2016?

The Honda CR-Z
http://www.newcarnewsandreviews.com/2016-honda-cr-z/

...
Total CRZs sold during 2014: 3,338

TOTAL CRZs sold since introduction: 28,689

I think you bring up a great point. The CR-Z is getting refreshed in the US without the hybrid drivetrain. In this case, they listened to what enthusiasts wanted. Will Toyota/Subaru listen to the market in the US and release the second gen FR-S/BRZ with more power or at least give the consumer that option?

[rice_classic]

3 pages and nobody points out the actual economic function of the car?

This car, by economic definition, is a "LOSS LEADER". It's intended solely as a tool of brand imaging, a lure to the brand and the showrooms. It improves brand loyalty and repeat purchasers. Ironically the Corvette was intended to be the same exact thing for GM but people ended up buying so many that eventually the Corvette (an intended loss-leader) became a profitable loss-leader if you will: benefits of a loss leader whilst generating a profit in itself.

Usually on products of this intention, breaking even on the manufacturing cost is a huge win because of the residual economic benefit the company will realize from its existence.

[gramicci101]

Calling a CRZ a sporty anything is just wrong. That thing can't even get out of its own way.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

3 pages and nobody points out the actual economic function of the car?

This car, by economic definition, is a "LOSS LEADER". It's intended solely as a tool of brand imaging, a lure to the brand and the showrooms. It improves brand loyalty and repeat purchasers. Ironically the Corvette was intended to be the same exact thing for GM but people ended up buying so many that eventually the Corvette (an intended loss-leader) became a profitable loss-leader if you will: benefits of a loss leader whilst generating a profit in itself.

Usually on products of this intention, breaking even on the manufacturing cost is a huge win because of the residual economic benefit the company will realize from its existence.

That's pretty much the point I just made

[Griever423]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

You can blame that in large part on Ford and the Mustang market. Mustang buyers are never satisfied. They want a cheap, fast muscle car but get butt-hurt when something can outmaneuver them in turns. So Ford has been trying to make a track car out of the newer models. As a result, the Mustang has a perpetual identity crisis, and still the buyers are never really satisfied and end up shitting on everything else to justify their mistake.

Even so, the line gets blurred with this kind of strategy, and many automotive writers are too stupid to understand the difference between a fast car and a driver's car. They in turn feed into the public's lack of understanding.

The funny thing is that I've gotten more attention from Mustang drivers than anything else. I had a driver of a brand new Mustang approach me at a gas station and ask me about the car, whether I liked it, was it fast, etc. Then he just stood there, staring at it with a sort of sad look on his face. He was still staring at it when I said goodbye and left. It was as if he realized at that very moment that he had bought the wrong car.

Yeahhhhh I don't think so. Most Mustang drivers care about power and speed. They are more concerned with times at the drag strip and street racing than handling.

[HotLavaFRS]

Originally Posted by Griever423

Yeahhhhh I don't think so. Most Mustang drivers care about power and speed. They are more concerned with times at the drag strip and street racing than handling.

I wouldn't go that far having been to many auto-xs and living with someone who had a pretty quick Mustang in the corners. It caught a good many people by surprise down in New Orleans auto-x meets because everyone still has this notion stuck in their head that American cars can still only drive straight.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

That's pretty much the point I just made

I know. But I did a CTRL F search for "Loss leader" and after not seeing those words specifically I just ran with it.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I know. But I did a CTRL F search for "Loss leader" and after not seeing those words specifically I just ran with it.

You stated it more clearly than I did anyhow.

[richardM]

Earning a big ol BLACK DOT in Consumer Reports Reliability column has to hurt a lot.

I think the issue is crickets. Me? I don't have crickets and the thing is reliable as if subaru and toyota built a car together.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But I agree that it doesn't look like a Warthog and is named wrong!

If Jeep built the Warthog, the buyers would be there. I'm surprised they haven't done it already, or maybe Polaris as a 4-wheeler.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

... Ironically the Corvette was intended to be the same exact thing for GM but people ended up buying so many that eventually the Corvette (an intended loss-leader) became a profitable loss-leader if you will: benefits of a loss leader whilst generating a profit in itself.
.

I just posted this in the FRS/BRZ sales figure thread, but figured I'd cross post it here since the discussion has turned to sales numbers, and some info on the Corvette.

Through March, Chevrolet has sold 44,674 of the C7 Corvettes in the US and Canada since its introduction last year and 8,517 this calendar year, almost as many as the total global sales of the FR-S since introduction.

Overall, according to this chart, the FR-S is #91 in sales in the US for this year, with decrease of 28.6% over 2014.

The BRZ is #111 with a decrease of 43.9% over last year's sales.

And since they are mentioned on this forum all the time the new Mustang (#20) has boosted sales by 52% but that will fall off, and does appear to be hurting #32 Camaro sales, which are down 11% for the year.

That all spells to me that if the 86 will make it to Gen2 they do need to do a mid-cycle refresh, and soon.