Electric Supercharger - Market Speculation

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

I dont know where it doesn't work was implied. The Bottom dollar is the only issue. Also Lithium is in very short supply and you want to waste a rare metal on some mediocre sub 4 G acceleration. Cool is subjective. You want to keep ranting how easy this thing is to bolt on and go with show off to your friends like some roller coaster ride. Such a low budget toy only really disappoints the poor people who have to slave in the neodyneum and litium mines.

Seriously...
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[l0aded]

So much hostility in this thread lol. Honestly for me the ability to pass people without downshifting ever is worth the 2000. To add to the conversation, I think ESC vs FI is a vastly different market and I never remotely considered FI when I got my ESC. Don't know about you guys but 2000 dollars vs 4000-7000 (without install) dollars isn't even in the same ballpark.

[Simplicity]

LOL I don't care what anyone has to say about this ESC. It's not meant for everybody, that's why there's different FI for EVERYONE. PICK YOUR POISON THEN MOVE ON. Why care about someone's decision in life? It's their money, why waste your time and anger on trying to convince people to get what you think is considered "good"?

I just know I'm still going to get this ESC because it's proven to be reliable and way less troublesome than most FI out there.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Why care about someone's decision in life? It's their money, why waste your time and anger on trying to convince people to get what you think is considered "good"?

sometimes I just enjoy a good debate, and also because, unlike some other robin hoods, I can speak with an English accent!

[WNDSRFR]

Just a couple of comments.
First of all I think Powderface is missing the point that the Phantom ESC is real, it exists and it works. There are many extremely satisfied customers whom have been enjoying this wonderful device for some time now.
And there is a waiting list a mile long.
Another thing is about the lithium. What is the lithium used for? It's certainly not used in the batteries. My batteries are made out of lead and acid.


And the last thing I want to comment on is the dual ESC configuration. I don't think it will work in series like that. In fact I think it would probably decrease the volume/pressure of the air. Now two in parallel as shown in the R8 would be awesome. I would like to try this on the 86 once the Phantom becomes more readily available. And when the procede comes out. I think I can make them fit.

[brzaapi]

Wow all kinds of highbrow arguments, or so it seems. I am not going to argue the recipe, but I will argue the pudding. Because that is where the proverbial "proof" is.


I have ran stock
I have ran E85 with intake,header, etc
I have ran FBM kit, on 91 (280whp) and E85 (407whp)
I have ran ESC on 91 and E85(ran like 250+whp)


Soon I will be able to tell what the car is like with E85 on a Sprintex SC.


If I was just street driving and autocrossing my car, I would have stayed with the ESC. The only reason I got rid of it was I needed something that could run at the track and go lap after lap. The FBM kit is great and LJ at Full Blown is awesome to work with. Hands down the most humble tuner I have ever met. If you want BIG power hes your guy and his kit is built for that.


The car in any NA form is just great and pure. Not fast, but a great tool for carving up AX and the track.


However, my ESC experience was the most fun I have had with my BRZ. The best bang for buck. Simple install. Low maintenance. Low frustration factor. It is almost perfect power for the FT86 platform. Yes you can run more, but quite frankly there are better cars for running 400+ hp on.


If I was just looking for more speed out of my street driven BRZ. I would hands down get the ESC. IN fact I am thinking about buying another one and installing on my dads Miata simply because it makes almost no sense not to run this little electric blower.


Yes the ESC on E85, felt a lot like my car pushing 270whp on a turbo. Very similar characteristics.


Best bang for buck - street AX - ESC


Most power and Money - Turbo


Power and trackability - SC


That's my two cents. I think the ESC is a great option. It would be my go-to pudding for easy power.

[Mars2]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Just a couple of comments.
First of all I think Powderface is missing the point that the Phantom ESC is real, it exists and it works. There are many extremely satisfied customers whom have been enjoying this wonderful device for some time now.
And there is a waiting list a mile long.
Another thing is about the lithium. What is the lithium used for? It's certainly not used in the batteries. My batteries are made out of lead and acid.


And the last thing I want to comment on is the dual ESC configuration. I don't think it will work in series like that. In fact I think it would probably decrease the volume/pressure of the air. Now two in parallel as shown in the R8 would be awesome. I would like to try this on the 86 once the Phantom becomes more readily available. And when the procede comes out. I think I can make them fit.

I think that two esc in series will work better than two in parllel. In turbo world two turbo in serie is call compound turbo and it's very efficient.

[tahdizzle]

ESC guys are like Chrysler 300 drivers.

Looks like a Phantom... til a Phantom drives up. :P

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by Mars2

I think that two esc in series will work better than two in parllel. In turbo world two turbo in serie is call compound turbo and it's very efficient.

I don't think compound turboing will work in this case because the two "turbos" (compressors) are the same size. In compound turbos usually a low pressure turbo feeds a high pressure turbo.
It might work. I don't know. Seems like way back when this was postulated I think more as a joke than anything. But if anyone has tried ESC's in series please let us know about it.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

I don't think compound turboing will work in this case because the two "turbos" (compressors) are the same size. In compound turbos usually a low pressure turbo feeds a high pressure turbo.
It might work. I don't know. Seems like way back when this was postulated I think more as a joke than anything. But if anyone has tried ESC's in series please let us know about it.

Actually Rob did, and IIRC it works. At the time though, the tuning and fine motor control, and battery weren't there. Now, things just might be. Also the costs would be a lot higher (maybe not even worth it as a product). Would take time and will and lots of testing. If Rob & Shiv have the desire, it might mayyybe could just happen (a long way down the pike). Who knows.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Please don't try to tell me it works. You have not implemented PID control to modulate pressure.

Dude. It works. There are kits on cars right now with before and after Dynos. Not sure what else you want. If Rob and Shiv didn't have kits and tunes working, I'd be more skeptical. But it works.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

ESC guys are like Chrysler 300 drivers.

Looks like a Phantom... til a Phantom drives up. :P

? I'm not sure I get the analogy. No one is claiming the ESC will beat a JRSC or anything*. The numbers are there, the prices are there, and it's up for the car owner to decide what they want.

If Rob had claimed that it gets 300 WHP out of the box and we saw it pushing 200 / 210, then I'd agree with you. But he told us exactly what it would do, and it does that rather well.

*with instant torque it'll pull ahead for a bit though...

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Wow all kinds of highbrow arguments, or so it seems. I am not going to argue the recipe, but I will argue the pudding. Because that is where the proverbial "proof" is.


I have ran stock
I have ran E85 with intake,header, etc
I have ran FBM kit, on 91 (280whp) and E85 (407whp)
I have ran ESC on 91 and E85(ran like 250+whp)


Soon I will be able to tell what the car is like with E85 on a Sprintex SC.


If I was just street driving and autocrossing my car, I would have stayed with the ESC. The only reason I got rid of it was I needed something that could run at the track and go lap after lap. The FBM kit is great and LJ at Full Blown is awesome to work with. Hands down the most humble tuner I have ever met. If you want BIG power hes your guy and his kit is built for that.


The car in any NA form is just great and pure. Not fast, but a great tool for carving up AX and the track.


However, my ESC experience was the most fun I have had with my BRZ. The best bang for buck. Simple install. Low maintenance. Low frustration factor. It is almost perfect power for the FT86 platform. Yes you can run more, but quite frankly there are better cars for running 400+ hp on.


If I was just looking for more speed out of my street driven BRZ. I would hands down get the ESC. IN fact I am thinking about buying another one and installing on my dads Miata simply because it makes almost no sense not to run this little electric blower.


Yes the ESC on E85, felt a lot like my car pushing 270whp on a turbo. Very similar characteristics.


Best bang for buck - street AX - ESC


Most power and Money - Turbo


Power and trackability - SC


That's my two cents. I think the ESC is a great option. It would be my go-to pudding for easy power.

From someone who has experienced ESC and traditional FI. Thank you.

Lots of 'arm chair' engineers in here who seem to know everything.....

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

Dude. It works. There are kits on cars right now with before and after Dynos. Not sure what else you want. If Rob and Shiv didn't have kits and tunes working, I'd be more skeptical. But it works.



? I'm not sure I get the analogy. No one is claiming the ESC will beat a JRSC or anything*. The numbers are there, the prices are there, and it's up for the car owner to decide what they want.

If Rob had claimed that it gets 300 WHP out of the box and we saw it pushing 200 / 210, then I'd agree with you. But he told us exactly what it would do, and it does that rather well.

*with instant torque it'll pull ahead for a bit though...

Actually, I think this entire thread is about an ESC being just as good, more cost effective, or better than a traditional FI set up.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Actually Rob did, and IIRC it works. At the time though, the tuning and fine motor control, and battery weren't there. Now, things just might be. Also the costs would be a lot higher (maybe not even worth it as a product). Would take time and will and lots of testing. If Rob & Shiv have the desire, it might mayyybe could just happen (a long way down the pike). Who knows.

I think you missed my intentions on this. I'm not suggesting this as a commercial product, it's just something that would be fun to try. I know the costs would be a lot higher. I'm guessing about twice as much. But to me it would just be a natural progression to see how far this can go. I've been thinking about doubling up the ESC for awhile and yes there are a lot of challenges to overcome but someone has to be the first to do anything. And if it doesn't work, then there is a ready market for other applications. I know someone with a Honda Fit who would love to try this. I'd like to see that myself!