Electric Supercharger - Market Speculation

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

FYI, the twin ESC set up I'm developing for the Audi R8 should be worth a 105-110whp gain and only add about 40lbs of weight (including battery). That is with retaining the huge 70lb stock starter battery. It's easy to save 30lbs there by using a full size Oddessey battery.

Seems pretty viable to me

Imagining the torque curve on this beast. Oh my!

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

FYI, the twin ESC set up I'm developing for the Audi R8 should be worth a 105-110whp gain and only add about 40lbs of weight (including battery). That is with retaining the huge 70lb stock starter battery. It's easy to save 30lbs there by using a full size Oddessey battery.

Seems pretty viable to me

Very cool - you guys have metrics on battery exhaustion and recovery with this setup compared to the 86 platform? Also have estimated costs? I'm curious about how well the R8's alternator works with such a high output setup. Sorry if asking repetitive questions - if there's detail in an R8 forum thread somewhere let me know.

It's really fascinating on how this concept has taken on a life of its own - originally intended as a 'low cost' option for our cars/miatas. This dual setup is bound to be MUCH more expensive, but the FI market for R8's is way more than our cars too (supercharger kits >$10k), so I imagine it's still an 'affordable' option for R8 owners.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

FYI, the twin ESC set up I'm developing for the Audi R8 should be worth a 105-110whp gain and only add about 40lbs of weight (including battery). That is with retaining the huge 70lb stock starter battery. It's easy to save 30lbs there by using a full size Oddessey battery.

Seems pretty viable to me

Can we get that on the FR-S? I wouldn't mind an extra bit of weight and similar cost to the JRSC if it means that the torque is practically instant.

[Shiv@Openflash]

And it all fits inside the factory airbox lid, making the whole twin ESC kit invisible

Nothing posted on the r8 forum yet. I still have some work to do on the ECU tuning side of things before everything is functional. But so far it's all coming along very nicely. The lithium on phosphate battery is pretty expensive ($1300) but when comparable turbo/sc kits range from $15-30K, the entire twin ECU kit (with OFT) comes out to be something that is completely reasonable!

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Very cool - you guys have metrics on battery exhaustion and recovery with this setup compared to the 86 platform? Also have estimated costs? I'm curious about how well the R8's alternator works with such a high output setup. Sorry if asking repetitive questions - if there's detail in an R8 forum thread somewhere let me know.

It's really fascinating on how this concept has taken on a life of its own - originally intended as a 'low cost' option for our cars/miatas. This dual setup is bound to be MUCH more expensive, but the FI market for R8's is way more than our cars too (supercharger kits >$10k), so I imagine it's still an 'affordable' option for R8 owners.

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

Can we get that on the FR-S? I wouldn't mind an extra bit of weight and similar cost to the JRSC if it means that the torque is practically instant.

Space constraints in the FRS make a twin ESC kit implementation impossible.

[DAEMANO]

@Shiv@Openflash

Very clean implementation in the R8's airbox. Especially for being so early in the process. The reduced complexity, and small size is such an advantage to ESC hardware. Keep up the good work man.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

And it all fits inside the factory airbox lid, making the whole twin ESC kit invisible

Man, she's purty.

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Space constraints in the FRS make a twin ESC kit implementation impossible.

Fine. I'll just buy an R8 then

The fact that a twin SC setup that looks nearly identical to a stock R8 is hilarious to me. Like it's a sleeper, but if the sleeper was already a supercar.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Space constraints in the FRS make a twin ESC kit implementation impossible.

Not even like this?

That'd be some fancy software trickery Senior Shiv.

[Ultramaroon]

Need room for the flux capacitor.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Not even like this?

That'd be some fancy software trickery Senior Shiv.

Oh I suppose that could be done with some careful packaging

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

Oh I suppose that could be done with some careful packaging

[PowderfaceTr.]

What would be the minimum weight to get 7 lbs of boost from an exhaust driven turbine?

Also nobody wants the alternator running 100% duty cycle. You have a great stoplight racer solution. Biggest market ever. Quit thinking this has never been done before, the Chinese military scrapped the idea of ESC turbines long ago. They are responsible for the 90% efficiency brushless motor tech we have now. Unless you have super caps and regen braking its just a silly tinker hobby.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

What would be the minimum weight to get 7 lbs of boost from an exhaust driven turbine?

Also nobody wants the alternator running 100% duty cycle. You have a great stoplight racer solution. Biggest market ever. Quit thinking this has never been done before, the Chinese military scrapped the idea of ESC turbines long ago. They are responsible for the 90% efficiency brushless motor tech we have now. Unless you have super caps and regen braking its just a silly tinker hobby.

The... "I can't see it happening so therefore it's not possible comment."

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

What would be the minimum weight to get 7 lbs of boost from an exhaust driven turbine?

You mean you don't already know this? You've already done all the necessary analysis, surely this would be part of it.

Also nobody wants the alternator running 100% duty cycle

Says who? So far the longest running Phantom ESC is something like 2 years old (maybe older). My kit is something like 15 months old. No signs of degradation in alternator performance whatsoever. From what I understand we're not even coming close to using the full capacity of our alternators. If years down the road an upgrade is needed, this is a relatively low cost item to make any ESC system tick, not a barrier.

You have a great stoplight racer solution. Biggest market ever.

Every reason then for both MFGs and the aftermarket to continue development. The biggest market could never be by definition a niche.

Quit thinking this has never been done before

Who ever said that?

the Chinese military scrapped the idea of ESC turbines long ago.

Saving this one for the quotebook. Taking this seriously, I have to ask... So "the Chinese military" couldn't reach their goal on something "long ago", that means no one else should develop any similar ideas? This HAS to be the long troll.

They are responsible for the 90% efficiency brushless motor tech we have now.

And I'm sure they're also responsible for every other improved technology in modern ESC developments (batteries, KERS, materials, etc)

Unless you have super caps and regen braking its just a silly tinker hobby.

First the issue is energy density, then it's the alternator, then it's the battery, then it's regen braking. You're reaching dude, and it shows.

Glad you have all the secrets. Since you do, I'm sure you'll have something to the market any day now. Better register as a vendor and start your thread right away.