Scion FT-86 FR-S

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Dyno pic doesn't show. And your drag math doesn't work. 110mph running only 3 more psi than when you made 250whp. Somebody's lying...

Try not to dig yourself to much of a bullshit hole when you explain what you 'really' meant...

It's not a dyno pic, its a link to a video. It doesn't show, then click the full link that I posted "above" the video.

You will soon realize with me that I'm not your average Scion owner who cares about Neon lights, interiors or some crappy stereo System. You will find out with talking with me, that you better not jump to conclusions:

13.5 @ 110mph w/ 9-10lbs of boost.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Lol on stock internals.. Learn thermodynamic cycles then talk about it.. 10:1 compression pistons from a stock motor with 8-10 lb boost is similar to having like 15lb boost with 8:1 compression pistons.. It's not all about the intake side.. So much shit comes in to account that you can't possibly even begin to sum it up with just the compressor output pressure..
ANY boost on stock internals with stock compression on a engine that was designed for NA is a ticking time bomb, as it was not engineered for that.. It might run "fine" and "safe" but for how long? How long before your hydrodynamic bearings begin to starve? What about your ehd bearings?
There is a reason why factory fi engines have lower comp, stronger rods and a more balanced lighter crank with better surface finishes in places where needed than na ones

tC's 2az-FE in 2004-2005 year comes with 9:6.1 compression. 2007-2010 comes with 9:8.1 compression. The new 2AR comes with 10:1 I think it is (forget exactly).

I've been boosted for 3+years at 300+whp on a STOCK motor.....At what POINT is that time bomb going to go off.... That would give me an excuse to build it sooner...

Want an example of a crappy FI engine from the factory, go take a look at the MazdaSpeed3 or the old MazdaSpeed Protege. tC will support more power than EITHER of those two using it's stock internals and actually RACE on it.

PTuning when they took the 2008 Championship in Modified FWD, they were using a BONE STOCK motor, running 93 Octane and 50/50 Water/Meth Injection on a GT3076R turbo at 14lbs of boost. They have their own in house dyno, which is a Dyno Dynamcis. It put down 330whp on THEIR dyno which they have est. to read 15% lower than the DynoJet dynos in their area (DJ would be around 360whp -/+) They ran the ENTIRE Season like this on a Emanage Ultimate, taking home the 2008 Championship. Later came back in 2009 on a built motor and more boost took the championship again.

Unlike you guys with your opinions, everything I state are FACTS, not opinions. FACTS are not Biased, they are actual occurences. I am only sharing those FACTS with you here.

I sold my 350z about 6 months ago, and am waiting the release of the FT-86 so I can have another RWD car that I can go drifting with, as I don't want to change the FWD configuration of my tC (although there is a tC in Formula D running a 2az original motor, in a transversed layout to power the rear wheels).

[Dragonitti]

I will repost the link again for anyone who missed it (since I was in the process of editing).

This is MY tC at 12lbs of boost on a 20G turbo (2.5 inch exhaust, log manifold, stock motor, upgraded clutch).

In case the vid doesn't show click here:

At the race track without my turbo setup, thus running Stock HP and chasing down Miata's, Modded S2k, 2010/11 Mustang GT, Roush S/C Mustang GT, EF Civic Hatch...etc..

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Stock internals bro. None of my vids are of me on a built motor...because I haven't built one....YET.





My 350z

- Gutted rear
- 6spd trans
- Stage 2 Clutch
- Lightweight flywheel
- Tein S-tech springs
- (forget tires but not stock)
- APS 2.5 test pipes
- K&N drop in filter

Had a Plenum spacer but never got around to installing it. I used my Z mainly for drift events. I did take it to the AutoX a few times. My Z was a 2003 (287hp crank), dynos about 240whp in stock form. My tC at the time I raced the two together, was putting down about 250whp/260wtq. My Z was all stock.

[u2b]watch?v=LhRmudY9Wyw[/u2b]



I have raced the HR 350z as well, and have pulled those (they are more like 300-305hp crank, forget exact number).

And Just an FYI....I Record EVERYTHING I do in terms of racing my tC. I don't need to grossly overstate anything, for who ever wants to take childish shots comparing me to an SRT4 owner.

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong about tC owners...

'hey man screw what anyone has to say about a tc.. they obviously cant make it move like it can, even the stock tc can beat a gt stang, i know because ive raced my friend in his 4times and he lost 4times in a 1/2'

People like this aren't helping the image... Neither are claims of 110mph trap speeds with 10psi on a stock Camry motor.

[Dragonitti]

And in no way shape or form am I say...."Oh the tC is AWESOME, it's the BEST, no one better....blah blah blah". I am giving you what I know about the car, as this ENTIRE forum LACKS in experience with this vehicle and go around spilling Hatemonger false info. And then the Hater Bandwagons starts going around picking up Noobs who after listen to the BS posted here....THINK they know what a tC can do.

No one in this forum spouting the BS are coming from actual real world knowledge or facts, and only giving some "biased" opinion because of some little crappy Rice boy they see driving a tC, or because they watch the Marketing commercials that Scion puts on.

Whoopdie doo...if you want REAL knowledge about this car, I am more than qualified to explain what it can and can't do. As like I mentioned, been racing it for 4 years (basically since they came out), and I've seen companies come and go in the Scion community with parts....The aftermarket for the tC is VAST and rivals just about any other make/model tuner car out there. And no I'm not talking about some BS Factory Toyota crap that you all so stereotypically think that we get our stuff from. Any Scion Enthusiast that's into performance aspect of it has Aftermarket gear, not some Factory cosmetic enhancement that does nothing. We are not all Stupid Rice boys who think that if I add an OBX shift knob, I can reduce my throws by 50%....Lame.

The only thing we are missing right now, is a stronger gear set (Factory transmission is stout though still, taking 450+whp before you lose 4th gear). But that's all about to be solved as well, as PTuning is working on a Straight cut gear setup, and possibly doing it in conjunction with PPG. Lengthen the 1st gear (as on boost it's useless), and to change gear ratios to better go along with some of the tC's out there with a built head reving out to 7500-8k rpms (factory is 6250rpm).

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

People like this aren't helping the image... Neither are claims of 110mph trap speeds with 10psi on a stock Camry motor.

Wait...You calling me a liar now? Even after I just posted the video?

If I was running a built motor or more boost, I would NOT have been running at 13.5 @ 110mph.

If I had more grip (slicks), I would have been in the high 12's on that night.

Or did I mis-read your comment and you wasn't meaning to be sarcastic or call me a liar?

[Dragonitti]

My tC vs my friends Modded MS3 (280whp)

PTuning's tC at my Local track during Redline Time Attack. Pay attention to the lap times being called out and posted in the video editing. Other cars on the track are the FP R35 GTR, Takata STI, and another Subie (forget company name).

Video was shot and edited by me.

Chris Rado's Fwing FWD tC is also in this vid. The overall track record was set by the AMS Evo X with a time of 1:01sec. Rado's FWD tC clocked a 1:03sec time. It is constantly top 5 fastest cars at any given event. So, imagine when the AWD tC gets dialed in.

[Dragonitti]

Track vid without my turbo setup. Starts out with me chasing down a Roush S/C Mustang GT.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rhythmns.../2/sq0Ul9S8cOg


Hopefully come spring, I will be on my new turbo setup. It's going to be 95% basically the same setup that PTuning did on their Time Attack tC, except they run a 35R now and I'll be pushing a 3076R (still on the stock motor, at about 350whp/350wtq).

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

And in no way shape or form am I say...."Oh the tC is AWESOME, it's the BEST, no one better....blah blah blah". I am giving you what I know about the car, as this ENTIRE forum LACKS in experience with this vehicle and go around spilling Hatemonger false info. And then the Hater Bandwagons starts going around picking up Noobs who after listen to the BS posted here....THINK they know what a tC can do.

No one in this forum spouting the BS are coming from actual real world knowledge or facts, and only giving some "biased" opinion because of some little crappy Rice boy they see driving a tC, or because they watch the Marketing commercials that Scion puts on.

Whoopdie doo...if you want REAL knowledge about this car, I am more than qualified to explain what it can and can't do. As like I mentioned, been racing it for 4 years (basically since they came out), and I've seen companies come and go in the Scion community with parts....The aftermarket for the tC is VAST and rivals just about any other make/model tuner car out there. And no I'm not talking about some BS Factory Toyota crap that you all so stereotypically think that we get our stuff from. Any Scion Enthusiast that's into performance aspect of it has Aftermarket gear, not some Factory cosmetic enhancement that does nothing. We are not all Stupid Rice boys who think that if I add an OBX shift knob, I can reduce my throws by 50%....Lame.

The only thing we are missing right now, is a stronger gear set (Factory transmission is stout though still, taking 450+whp before you lose 4th gear). But that's all about to be solved as well, as PTuning is working on a Straight cut gear setup, and possibly doing it in conjunction with PPG. Lengthen the 1st gear (as on boost it's useless), and to change gear ratios to better go along with some of the tC's out there with a built head reving out to 7500-8k rpms (factory is 6250rpm).

Ok, I know little about the tC.

Here is what I know about Scion in general and the tC specifically.

The epic performance car you call the tC is based on a chassis that Toyota makes for a European FWD family/economy car that fits between the Corolla and the Camry in terms of size. It is powered by a Camry/Corolla XRS/RAV4/Matrix four cylinder. It has MacStruts in the front and multilink rear suspension.

That's about it.

Not going to blow any minds into thinking, 'OMG this would be an awesome race car!'. Unless I could get one for free, and lots of Toyota factory support. (Think Titan is operating a 2JZGTE-powered funny car under the Scion brand because they WANT to? All they want is the money.)

You are completely under Toyota's marketing spell. I'm not going to look for the exact quote but you said something along the lines that because of these extremely heavily-modded, some not having a single 'Scion' component on them, you are proud to be a Scion owner. You are probably proud to watch the 'David' little man Scion team beat up on the established 'Goliath' performance cars. Yeah, go underdog!

Those cars and the money Toyota throws at them is actually marketing. Gasp!

But you're not realizing that it's actually the other way around. Toyota is a factory team dressed up as Scion competing against a bunch of privateers. In cars so far removed from what they sell it's amazing. Given the reality you should be embarrassed that they are not doing even better.

Get over your car. It's basically a Camry/Corolla coupe. You spent a lot of money to make it fast. Good for you.

As for your engine numbers, I'll admit I know next to nothing about the 2AZFE. But my experience in the Supra community means I have a good handle on the BS that comes with 'stock' claims. And by that I don't mean that I think the 2JZGTE can take 1000 hp on stock internals and that no other motor can come close to the mighty 2JZGTE. It means I know how much BS is in the 'stock' internal 2JZ claims. And this is a HEAVILY over-built motor. Iron, closed-deck block, everything forged but the pistons. So I don't see a lightweight, economy-minded motor making crazy claims having any more truth to them.

But I could be wrong.

[70NYD]

Learn to answer multiple posts in one this is getting fucking ridiculous..
Also a stock sr20det with stock turbo will run 20 years where as your setup will go for a significant time less..
I'm not wasting my time any more talking to you
Your gona be one of the ****heads that will give this car (86) a very bad name
Just hope that when you do crash it you don't take anyone with you

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Wait...You calling me a liar now? Even after I just posted the video?

If I was running a built motor or more boost, I would NOT have been running at 13.5 @ 110mph.

If I had more grip (slicks), I would have been in the high 12's on that night.

Or did I mis-read your comment and you wasn't meaning to be sarcastic or call me a liar?

I'm saying that I'm estimating your 9psi setup at 280whp, (given your figures) and that 280 whp and 110mph trap don't match.

People lie on the internet about their cars all the time. And coming from the tC background you have a bunch of ass-hats before you that make people automatically call bullshit on performance claims. Thank your tC community for my skepticism.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Ok, I know little about the tC.

Here is what I know about Scion in general and the tC specifically.

The epic performance car you call the tC is based on a chassis that Toyota makes for a European FWD family/economy car that fits between the Corolla and the Camry in terms of size. It is powered by a Camry/Corolla XRS/RAV4/Matrix four cylinder. It has MacStruts in the front and multilink rear suspension.

That's about it.

Not going to blow any minds into thinking, 'OMG this would be an awesome race car!'. Unless I could get one for free, and lots of Toyota factory support. (Think Titan is operating a 2JZGTE-powered funny car under the Scion brand because they WANT to? All they want is the money.)

You are completely under Toyota's marketing spell. I'm not going to look for the exact quote but you said something along the lines that because of these extremely heavily-modded, some not having a single 'Scion' component on them, you are proud to be a Scion owner. You are probably proud to watch the 'David' little man Scion team beat up on the established 'Goliath' performance cars. Yeah, go underdog!

Those cars and the money Toyota throws at them is actually marketing. Gasp!

But you're not realizing that it's actually the other way around. Toyota is a factory team dressed up as Scion competing against a bunch of privateers. In cars so far removed from what they sell it's amazing. Given the reality you should be embarrassed that they are not doing even better.

Get over your car. It's basically a Camry/Corolla coupe. You spent a lot of money to make it fast. Good for you.

As for your engine numbers, I'll admit I know next to nothing about the 2AZFE. But my experience in the Supra community means I have a good handle on the BS that comes with 'stock' claims. And by that I don't mean that I think the 2JZGTE can take 1000 hp on stock internals and that no other motor can come close to the mighty 2JZGTE. It means I know how much BS is in the 'stock' internal 2JZ claims. And this is a HEAVILY over-built motor. Iron, closed-deck block, everything forged but the pistons. So I don't see a lightweight, economy-minded motor making crazy claims having any more truth to them.

But I could be wrong.

True that. I happened to read on a review from clublexus.com, tC is base on Avensis family sedan which is sold in EU exclusively.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Ok, I know little about the tC.

Here is what I know about Scion in general and the tC specifically.

The epic performance car you call the tC is based on a chassis that Toyota makes for a European FWD family/economy car that fits between the Corolla and the Camry in terms of size. It is powered by a Camry/Corolla XRS/RAV4/Matrix four cylinder. It has MacStruts in the front and multilink rear suspension.

It chassis is based on the Toyota Avensis a European AWD family/economy car. This very fact is why it is allowed to compete in Formula D. Rules of Formula D state that you are NOT allowed to convert FWD cars to RWD to run in the series. The car has to come from either an AWD configuration (which the tC's chassis as mentioned, already does), or it must be RWD.

Originally Posted by Dimman

That's about it.

Not going to blow any minds into thinking, 'OMG this would be an awesome race car!'. Unless I could get one for free, and lots of Toyota factory support. (Think Titan is operating a 2JZGTE-powered funny car under the Scion brand because they WANT to? All they want is the money.)

You are completely under Toyota's marketing spell. I'm not going to look for the exact quote but you said something along the lines that because of these extremely heavily-modded, some not having a single 'Scion' component on them, you are proud to be a Scion owner. You are probably proud to watch the 'David' little man Scion team beat up on the established 'Goliath' performance cars. Yeah, go underdog!

Actually I posted that I was proud to be a Scion owner because I look up to these tC's. One is built beyond the normal guy (me)'s means, and the other is a build that any normal guy can duplicate (PTuning's tC). Marketing spell are you serious? I was racing my tC before PTuning even came around dude. I was boosted before PTuning developed their Time Attack tC. And Rado wasn't knocking down Track records yet. I am considered an OG in the Scion Community because I've been around the Scion Forums before there was even one single turbo setup for a tC. Now there are like 10....LOL.

I am definitely proud of the David vs Goliath phenom though, but that is based on my Own Personal experiences from my Street racing days. Everyone in my town "were" just like you. Now when they see my tC roll around, they "Know" to not be just like you. You know, if I were to meet the lot of you at the race track and you had no prior knowledge of me via these forums, you would have me do the same thing the guys at the race track have me do.....That is making me pop my hood, only to find out that I'm currently running a stock air box, stock header and full exhaust for power...LOL. If they make me pop the hood now, imagine when I put my new turbo setup on the car....

Originally Posted by Dimman

Those cars and the money Toyota throws at them is actually marketing. Gasp!

But you're not realizing that it's actually the other way around. Toyota is a factory team dressed up as Scion competing against a bunch of privateers. In cars so far removed from what they sell it's amazing. Given the reality you should be embarrassed that they are not doing even better.

Get over your car. It's basically a Camry/Corolla coupe. You spent a lot of money to make it fast. Good for you.

As for your engine numbers, I'll admit I know next to nothing about the 2AZFE. But my experience in the Supra community means I have a good handle on the BS that comes with 'stock' claims. And by that I don't mean that I think the 2JZGTE can take 1000 hp on stock internals and that no other motor can come close to the mighty 2JZGTE. It means I know how much BS is in the 'stock' internal 2JZ claims. And this is a HEAVILY over-built motor. Iron, closed-deck block, everything forged but the pistons. So I don't see a lightweight, economy-minded motor making crazy claims having any more truth to them.

But I could be wrong.

It wouldn't be the first time you were in this thread now would it. What part of PTuning has never seen $1 dollar from Scion do you keep over reading?

Of course I'm not backed by Scion, I'm just a privateer doing what he can on a family man's budget. Get over my car because it's basically a Camry/Corolla coupe? Fact 1: Camry and the NEW Corolla XRS share one thing with the tC....powerplant. So, based on your OVER simplified attempt at a put down that, you guessed it, I've heard 1billion times already.....You consider a 240sx a Truck then, as the 240sx KA came from a pickup truck.

Is there something wrong with someone building their car they selected and enjoying it's performance and being proud of what it has accomplished?

And how much BETTER should Rado's tC be doing? It's Untouched dude...every FWD car in the Unlimited class is like 8sec slower than he is. How much of a butt whooping do he need to give?

Listen, you don't have to Like Scion, or like the tC or whatever. But there is a difference between being an Enthusiast and giving respect to Fast feats of engineering, and just simply being ignorant and hating on something no matter what it accomplishes. Which are you? Something tells me Enthusiast isn't among the people here. I am an Enthusiast, and I enjoy anything that is fast or can be made fast. I can give two rats if it's FWD, AWD, RWD, made by Mitsu, Subie, Toyota, Scion...etc.

So, the whole..."Oh if it comes out as a Scion then I won't buy it"....I simply laugh at. People hated when they found out the new GTR35 was going to come out under Nissan. And many stated "$70k for a Nissan is stupid".....yet the car freaking performs. As long as the FT-86 performance meets it's price, I can careless if it comes out as a Scion or a Toyota, although I sure HOPE it comes out as a Scion or have a Scion version, cause I'm going to rock it hard and see what it's made of.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Learn to answer multiple posts in one this is getting fucking ridiculous..
Also a stock sr20det with stock turbo will run 20 years where as your setup will go for a significant time less..
I'm not wasting my time any more talking to you
Your gona be one of the ****heads that will give this car (86) a very bad name
Just hope that when you do crash it you don't take anyone with you

One guy replying to about 5...get off my back dude. Run for 20 years and mine will run for significant time less....and you know this because of what? LOL....In 20yrs you think I won't be pushing a built motor at 500+whp...

You make unintelligent post, so I actually thank you for not talking anymore. When you decide you want to join a grown mans conversation about REAL truths then hit me up. I'm not a kid, I have two of my own, so I don't play games sir. When I do crash it...oh how cute. I'm going to give it a bad name because I want to take it to the track...wow. People who have nothing intelligent to add to a conversation show their sign of weakness by personally attacking the person they are debating. It's a cop-out rather than manning up and and admitting they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Originally Posted by Dimman

I'm saying that I'm estimating your 9psi setup at 280whp, (given your figures) and that 280 whp and 110mph trap don't match.

People lie on the internet about their cars all the time. And coming from the tC background you have a bunch of ass-hats before you that make people automatically call bullshit on performance claims. Thank your tC community for my skepticism.

That's what it put down on the dyno man, not more I can tell you about that. I was running without the factory rear seats and that's the only weight reduction I had at the time of that run. Presently I have a lot more now. Car weighs 2550lbs (stock weight 2970lbs). That's not an est. that's it's real weight based on the scales at the drag strip recently.

I have no need to lie, I'm a 30yr old grown man with 2 young boys and a wife. Kids lie and can't back their stuff up. I video everything for the simple fact that there are so many haters that try and call me a liar about something, so your thoughts are nothing new to me. And there are people like you even in the Scion community itself, so I'm all to familiar with these situations. I've been disproving people since I boosted this car. There is of course an Abundance of Dyno Sheets on ScionLife in the F/I section to back up the numbers that I have stated the tC is capable of producing.

[Dragonitti]

Are you guys like upset that Scion/Toyota decided to put money into the tC program rather than some other car that you would have liked? If that's your base for the dislike, I can understand that. But don't blindly hate on something you don't know anything about. And for Gods Sake.....keep up with Current Motorsports. Not every accomplished Scion that hits the race track is backed by Scion/Toyota.

But man do I wish they had a readily available contingency program...that would be Icing on the cake. I did compete in Redline Time Attack in 2009. Came in 4th, and that was without me being on boost. I've been without my turbo for about a year now... I miss boost. Time to go back. Just been taking care of the family, selling the 350z and getting an Infiniti FX35 to replace it. Now it's boost time again.