vid of dealership bouncing frs off rev limiter

[WingsofWar]

lol this thread reminds me of this..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhkAz6qossE"]hell[/ame]

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Big T

I expect rev limiter videos from all the people saying "its not a big deal" as soon as you take delivery. Look forward to it

Not from neutral they won't...

[AshWilliams]

I bet the car was sold. While it's not the smartest thing to do to trash a customer's car then post it on the internet, there really is a lot of leniency as to what a dealer can do to your car--without ever telling you. And the reason they probably pulled the clip is that they don't want an angry customer coming into the stealership with a Youtube clip of their car.

If a car was damaged getting off of the truck, in the lot, etc. the dealer is supposed to disclose that to you (oddly they can still sell it as a "new" car), but many bury that paperwork when you take delivery in the mountain of crap they get you to sign when they do their song and dance--so read carefully if they make you sign any paperwork claiming how they restored your vehicle to new condition. A lot of dealers in the tornado belt do this with lots of hail damaged cars.

There's a local POS Ford dealer around here that recently sold a Raptor. I wandered over to it when I was getting my truck serviced at a nearby dealership... There was mud and pine straw jammed into the underbody nooks and crannies (like it had been in a water crossing) and the bump stops looked beaten up. When a popular car comes out, expect the salesmen to go joyriding in the first few delivered until they get it out of their system. The same happened to the FJ Cruiser when it came out. I saw the first few belching clouds of grey and white smoke as the local dealerships drag raced them up and down the street (and this is a 4WD).

[Rik84]

It's unfortunate that some monkey at a poorly run dealership did this.

Unfortunately though, I don't think this video getting out there will do anything to anyone, as it's common place and just something we as consumers have to deal with.

Also, anyone who is using this as a reason to not take delivery on their unless they watch it roll off the truck is in for a tough go. We aren't looking to buy a limited edition sports car, or even an expensive car.

We're looking at buying a $25,000 - $30,000 coupe, from either Subaru or Scion - neither of which are leaders in client relations.

If we were in the market for at least an M3, C63, M5 etc then demands of watching your special order $125,000 baby come off the back of a truck with white gloves are completely reasonable. The sad state is that we have a warranty that comes with the car, if there's an issue it'll get taken care of.

Makes me sad, but it's the unfortunate truth

[matt30]

Originally Posted by luxmn

By frequent you mean more than 1 times? In the first few hundreds miles? 1 every 200 300 or st? Did I miss that in the manual? I honestly want to know.

For any new engine (boat, motorcycle, car, leafblower) to maintain compression there is always some minor high friction rubbing of the piston rings and piston skirt on the block (same thing with gears). The piston essentially shaves off pieces of the cylinder wall (smoothing out the wall) and eventually those pieces make their way into the oill pan. That's why, if you ever do your own oil change, the first one will always have bits of metal in it. It's important that this metal is removed so it doesn't foul other parts of the engine.

Obviously the cost-benefit of having multiple oil changes probably isn't worth it for most people, so you'll rarely see engines not designed for racing with such requirements.

[matt30]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Okay, so we expect you to give us some videos of you doing this with your car then...

I don't know what this proves other than it's possible. If you wanted some kind of scientific test you would have to compare engines that have 200k+ miles on them.

From an engineering prospective, the damage is negligible. Honestly. I'm not the kind of guy that spreads misinformation. The more people know about how their cars work, the better.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by matt30

I don't know what this proves other than it's possible. If you wanted some kind of scientific test you would have to compare engines that have 200k+ miles on them.

From an engineering prospective, the damage is negligible. Honestly. I'm not the kind of guy that spreads misinformation. The more people know about how their cars work, the better.

Is that why manufacturers (you know, the guys with the scores of engineers working for them) recommend leaving in the factory fill until it is time for the first scheduled oil change?

Factory fill oils usually have specifically formulated compositions designed for the break-in process. Though it is true that the first oil change will yield considerable metal shavings, there is a reason manufacturers don't tell you to get your oil changed as soon as the "break-in" period is over. It is in their best interests to maintain the longevity of their engines since they are the ones on the hook for the powertrain warranty.

[matt30]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

Not from neutral they won't...

It's actually worse to hit the rev limiter in gear because of the violent momentum changes that result from a fuel cut. Especially on a car with a light flywheel.

[matt30]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Is that why manufacturers (you know, the guys with the scores of engineers working for them) recommend leaving in the factory fill until it is time for the first scheduled oil change?

Factory fill oils usually have specifically formulated compositions designed for the break-in process. Though it is true that the first oil change will yield considerable metal shavings, there is a reason manufacturers don't tell you to get your oil changed as soon as the "break-in" period is over. It is in their best interests to maintain the longevity of their engines since they are the ones on the hook for the powertrain warranty.

That's a myth. Most engines have molybdenum on the components that mixes with the regular oil. Most components have molybdenum because of the machining process, but also to offset the presence of metal in the oil. Obviously if you're changing the oil regularly to remove the shavings the additional lubricant is unnecessary. Part of the reason you're told in the owners manual to take it easy during the first few miles is because molybdenum doesn't perform well under high heat.

Edit: The oil they put in initially probably goes to the lowest bidder. So it's not exactly the highest quality oil.

[n2oinferno]

So uh, the video is gone and I didn't see it, but what does revving a car in neutral have to do with the amount of miles on it? I suppose unless you take delivery at the factory you have no idea if someone started your car and revved the shit out of it or not, because that doesn't show up on the odometer.

[luxmn]

Originally Posted by matt30

That's a myth. Most engines have molybdenum on the components that mixes with the regular oil. Most components have molybdenum because of the machining process, but also to offset the presence of metal in the oil. Obviously if you're changing the oil regularly to remove the shavings the additional lubricant is unnecessary. Part of the reason you're told in the owners manual to take it easy during the first few miles is because molybdenum doesn't perform well under high heat.

Edit: The oil they put in initially probably goes to the lowest bidder. So it's not exactly the highest quality oil.

Say you're right, how often do you change oil during break in?

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by matt30

That's a myth. Most engines have molybdenum on the components that mixes with the regular oil. Most components have molybdenum because of the machining process, but also to offset the presence of metal in the oil. Obviously if you're changing the oil regularly to remove the shavings the additional lubricant is unnecessary. Part of the reason you're told in the owners manual to take it easy during the first few miles is because molybdenum doesn't perform well under high heat.

Edit: The oil they put in initially probably goes to the lowest bidder. So it's not exactly the highest quality oil.

I know all about how moly shows up in oil analysis and the like. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm going to follow what the people who made my car have to say, and not what some dude on the internet says in contravention to throngs of engineers.

***Further, if an oil change was necessary in the first several hundred miles, it would be in the interests of the manufacturer/dealerships to recommend it, because that would mean more money from increased service visits. Why would they go against their profit motive at the service level and the warranty level, it just doesn't make much sense from that perspective.

[matt30]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

I know all about how moly shows up in oil analysis and the like. I guess when it comes down to it, I'm going to follow what the people who made my car have to say, and not what some dude on the internet says in contravention to throngs of engineers.

I wasn't telling you when or how to change your oil, hopefully you now know more than you did a few hours ago. My original point, which you flipped out over, was that the damage from hitting red line is as negligible as not changing oil frequently during break-in.

The real issue with the video is that the guys at the dealership are playing with someones stuff without asking. Not that the car is broken or irrevocably compromised.

[matt30]

Originally Posted by luxmn

Say you're right, how often do you change oil during break in?

Depends on the vehicle. On my Honda, whenever the service interval is up. On my boat and motorcycle, very often. My sailboat inboard probably twice a year (regardless of how often I run it). On my bike I changed it often during the break in period and at regular intervals now that's it's nearly 2 years old.

I had a WRX in the past but I bought it used.