Selecting a subwoofer for ktp-445u

[keithr]

Originally Posted by swarb

Anyone recommend some 6.5's for under 100?

How about these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ppa-62.9I.html

Stellar reviews, 95db sensitivity, adjustable tweeter (angle it up and back a bit...)... these look really nice. They're 2ohm which won't matter to your Alpine amp, it supplies the same power at 4 or 2ohm.

Originally Posted by swarb

Foam speaker cups? those things do anything?

They waste your money, if that's considered doing something.

In a lot of cases they actually make your speakers sound worse because they cut off the airspace that your speakers were designed to use.

Just sound deaden your doors and you'll be fine.

Koa suggested Second Skin products, which are very good, but there are other options, too. I mentioned Don @ http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com -- this would be my #1 recommendation. Also, RAAMaudio products work just fine and are pretty easy to apply. The CLD tiles are pretty much the same and Ensolite Peel & Stick is essentially the same thing as the Overkill Pro foam. You won't get the level of sound deadening from something like Overkill or Ensolite as you would from a full (thick, heavy) MLV product (like SDS MLV or Luxury Liner), but the installation is quite a bit easier. Don @ SDS and Jason @ RAAMaudio are both really great guys. I've never talked to anyone from Second Skin so I can't attest to their service or attention, but Don and Jason would both go over options and recommendations and pros/cons with you for your specific needs.

I have 6 products in use in my doors... SDS CLD tiles, SDS CCF, SDS MLV, SDS EBR, 3M Thinsulate, and a small piece of Ensolite Peel & Stick behind the speakers just because I had some extra.

[crash.1340]

You can bridge this to three channels, by setting it to 4 channel input, give it two channels into one channel (left signal into left front, right signal into left rear) and sub output can be sent to the right channel of the amp, then bridge it. 45Wx2 and 90Wx1.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by keithr

How about these: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...ppa-62.9I.html

Stellar reviews, 95db sensitivity, adjustable tweeter (angle it up and back a bit...)... these look really nice. They're 2ohm which won't matter to your Alpine amp, it supplies the same power at 4 or 2ohm.



They waste your money, if that's considered doing something.

In a lot of cases they actually make your speakers sound worse because they cut off the airspace that your speakers were designed to use.

Just sound deaden your doors and you'll be fine.

Koa suggested Second Skin products, which are very good, but there are other options, too. I mentioned Don @ http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com -- this would be my #1 recommendation. Also, RAAMaudio products work just fine and are pretty easy to apply. The CLD tiles are pretty much the same and Ensolite Peel & Stick is essentially the same thing as the Overkill Pro foam. You won't get the level of sound deadening from something like Overkill or Ensolite as you would from a full (thick, heavy) MLV product (like SDS MLV or Luxury Liner), but the installation is quite a bit easier. Don @ SDS and Jason @ RAAMaudio are both really great guys. I've never talked to anyone from Second Skin so I can't attest to their service or attention, but Don and Jason would both go over options and recommendations and pros/cons with you for your specific needs.

I have 6 products in use in my doors... SDS CLD tiles, SDS CCF, SDS MLV, SDS EBR, 3M Thinsulate, and a small piece of Ensolite Peel & Stick behind the speakers just because I had some extra.

I am a definite SecondSkin fanboy.. got a b-stock 30 SQFT of Damplifier Pro for $100


But SDS is the shit as well! Anything over that ebay fatmat shit

[keithr]

Originally Posted by crash.1340

You can bridge this to three channels, by setting it to 4 channel input, give it two channels into one channel (left signal into left front, right signal into left rear) and sub output can be sent to the right channel of the amp, then bridge it. 45Wx2 and 90Wx1.

I disagree, I don't think that amp will work in 3 channel mode... but in any event, why would you? There's no LPF on the amp and there's no dedicated sub output on the BRZ's HU, so you still have to figure out a way to filter the signal. Plus, 90W RMS isn't going to produce much movement in any sub that's worth paying for.

[swarb]

ya, im out on the 90w subwoofer idea. It will barely drive a 8" and wont make any real boom.

So I am looking at 6.5's for the doors, some mounting plates, and some sound deadening. Trying to go minimal on the cost/weight for that. I will eventually run them at 90w X 2

Question-
My current setup, I tried running the door speakers at full range@45 watts and it was too much highs for my liking. So I just used the 60hz lpf on the amp and it sounds better/ more balanced. Not sure if I should run it full range and adjust the highs down through the eq, or remove the dash speakers or just run as I have it setup. I'm thinking of leaving it for now until I get a sub in there, when I actually need more highs.

[keithr]

Originally Posted by swarb

My current setup, I tried running the door speakers at full range@45 watts and it was too much highs for my liking. So I just used the 60hz lpf on the amp and it sounds better/ more balanced. Not sure if I should run it full range and adjust the highs down through the eq, or remove the dash speakers or just run as I have it setup. I'm thinking of leaving it for now until I get a sub in there, when I actually need more highs.

The crossover on that amp is actually a HPF, not a LPF, so that's not going to have any effect on cutting high frequencies. The difference in sound is likely due to not wasting power by sending sub-bass tones to the door speakers, making more efficient use of your 45W and giving a little more balance.

You've currently got stock speakers, right?

When you replace them with the 6.5 coaxials in the doors, just disconnect the stock speakers in the dash. You'll have full range coming from your door speakers, there's no need (nor would you want) to have additional higher-frequency noise coming from the dash.

You'll find that quality speakers are going to have a more rounded response and thus the highs will blend better with the midrange. Plus, by not having the stock tweeters firing into the windshield and then bouncing right into your face, the highs won't be so harsh.

The Infinity set that I linked to has the tweeter on a pivot so you can adjust how it is directed. I really like that because you can fine tune to your liking.

I would leave the amp crossed at 60Hz for now, until you get a proper sub. When you do, consider experimenting with changing the door speakers to an 80Hz crossover point and let your sub fill that space. You'll get improved midrange from your door speakers (same effect as you've already experienced) and less vibration and rattles in the door.

You can always tone the highs down a bit with the EQ if you still don't like the sound, but I think with better speakers you'll be more pleased with a clearer but more mellow top end.

[keithr]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the Kappas have a selectable -3dB setting for the tweeters, which can also be used to mellow the tweeters if you find them too bright so that you don't have to do as much manipulation with the source EQ.

[gramicci101]

OP would probably be better served to buy a subwoofer-specific amplifier that actually has a low pass filter on it. Some of the class D models are very small. I just sold one that was only slightly larger than a credit card.

[swarb]

hmmm I guess it is a hpf. The stock speakers must be at near its limit.

How do I fine tune it without the door panels on? is that the only way?

Yeah the fronts were a little harsh. But I do like the front biased sound. I guess I've been missing out on properly setup door speakers for a while.

[crash.1340]

Originally Posted by keithr

I disagree, I don't think that amp will work in 3 channel mode... but in any event, why would you? There's no LPF on the amp and there's no dedicated sub output on the BRZ's HU, so you still have to figure out a way to filter the signal. Plus, 90W RMS isn't going to produce much movement in any sub that's worth paying for.

It's not designed to work in three channel mode but it can, you just have to be clever. It would be best for a small portable sound system honestly, because like you said 90w RMS isn't going to do a whole hell of a lot in terms of bass.

[keithr]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

OP would probably be better served to buy a subwoofer-specific amplifier that actually has a low pass filter on it. Some of the class D models are very small. I just sold one that was only slightly larger than a credit card.

If only somebody had suggested that!

[keithr]

Originally Posted by swarb

How do I fine tune it without the door panels on? is that the only way?

Before you put the door cards back on, do some demo listening. Pick a song that you're very familiar with. Use a clean recording, so not a live track or something with a lot of busy noise in it, and don't use a crappy highly-compressed MP3. Use a CD track if you have it. Using that as reference, you can figure out how you want to aim the tweeters... probably I would say aim them directly at each other at first and then perhaps tilt them up slightly, so that if they had lasers on them they'd cross at maybe right where your A/C control knobs are... as high as maybe where the center A/C vents are. I probably wouldn't go much higher, but you won't know until you try. You can also tilt them a bit back, so that maybe the lasers would cross directly above your shifter, but you probably don't want to go too much more than that. Your ears will tell you what sounds right.

The door card shouldn't color the sound much, that's the idea, so once you get it mostly dialed in you can put the door cards on and then use a pink noise and RTA app to fine-tune, or just tune it by ear for what sounds good to you over the next few days as you listen.

Pick a selection of music that covers a wide gamut of sound characteristics. I use everything from female vocals like Sarah McLachlan and Sharon Little, to Joe Satriani's guitar virtuosity, all the way to Eazy-E and Lil' Jon. I've got a great EP CD from a band called Dink that were around for a quick flash in the early 90's that has a couple really cool electronic tracks on it that give wicked stereo imaging and powerful midrange, and I use tracks from a band called Orbital for the same reason. Mannheim Steamroller and Trans Siberian Orchestra can be a lot of fun for demo and tuning. I usually close out with "Batalla de los Tambores" on the Godsmack "Changes" DVD, just because it's so much damn fun.

Pro tip, it's always better to lower below 0dB on an EQ than to boost. So if the midrange is weak, rather than boosting it, lower the frequencies around it instead to even it out. It's tempting to boost because you get that bump in volume, but you're asking for distortion and possibly clipping your amp's power at higher volume levels if you boost frequencies. I start with a totally flat EQ and then I only lower below the 0dB, I never boost anything above unless it's a rare case and a very small plus (+3dB or less) at 5K Hz or something magically flattens my curve. Even at that, I only use that technique as sort of a last resort.

[Koa]

if you want some heavyweight suggestions for some of the most breathtaking bass music.. let me know. Here's some shining examples:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDNg0CMFyIo"]Kendrick Lamar - M.A.A.D. ( EPROM Remix ) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1nD81-S2f0"]G Jones - Pixel - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ECGqyEByE"]Buku - Down - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5DPF3HR17c"]On My Mind (AWE Remix) (feat. Dwntwn) - YouTube[/ame]


Subwoofer or high quality headphones required for these tracks. Last one is one of my favorites to play out. So heavy but melodic @ 1:44

[swarb]

hey! I don't have a sub yet. Don't make me blow my stocks and buy stuff.