Anyone deal with "unsafe vehicle" tickets?

[mjh712]

Originally Posted by stugray

Although I hate the "draggin ass" look of super low cars:

HOW can being too low be an unsafe condition?
The only thing unsafe about it is that youre going to fuck up your car.

I dont see it being a hazard to anyone else unless you are also speeding and thrashing the car around.

First, read this: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/8-...-who-wins.html

Now remember what happened in CT?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/04...r-report-says/

Pretty much anytime you alter something, like height, stance, etc. to non-factory specs, you're taking all liability for any accident (and all repercussions: damage to your car, other vehicles, personal injuries, etc.) that can be attributed to it. Especially if you don't tell your insurance company.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Thanks, I didn't find those.


For 24008, if his car is lower than the lowest point on his wheel, I imagine it would be hard to drive at all, because it would be dragging on everything and throwing sparks. Fair enough.


That's not what 24002 says though.

24002 VC looks to be older, but I'm sure some combo of those laws are what got the OP the "unsafe vehicle" warning. I'm obviously not from Cali so I'm just using the ol' Google machine

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

24002 VC looks to be older, but I'm sure some combo of those laws are what got the OP the "unsafe vehicle" warning. I'm obviously not from Cali so I'm just using the ol' Google machine

Same here. It really looks like the only specifics are 24008 and 24400/24403 for the lights. Everything else is vaguely worded with no specific measurements to enforce.

There's someone on base here with air suspension. When he parks he drops it to sit on the ground. Even then, because of the drop adding substantial negative camber to the rear wheels, he would only barely be in violation of 24008. I can't imagine anyone trying to drive in violation of that, unless they were specifically trying to throw sparks or rolling into a car show.

[mav1178]

I've been dealing with this too low" part for about 20 years now in California.

You CAN be cited for being too low, as it is a safety issue. Just because you are able to drive at your ride height doesn't mean you can drive it legally.

The violation usually is used in the context of a moving vehicle. No one cares when you're parked. No one cares you can fix it in 4 seconds.

It's like getting a ticket for texting while driving... you can put your phone away, but you already violated the vehicle code(s). So does that mean you're innocent?

-alex

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by mav1178

It's like getting a ticket for texting while driving... you can put your phone away, but you already violated the vehicle code(s). So does that mean you're innocent?

-alex

If you're in violation of the code, then you're in violation of the code, and such is life. Which paragraph of the code defines your car being too low while driving, though? That's what we've been trying to find out.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you're in violation of the code, then you're in violation of the code, and such is life. Which paragraph of the code defines your car being too low while driving, though? That's what we've been trying to find out.

It's left intentionally ambiguous and at the officer's discretion. The point is that the car was "too low," it's that it was because it was determined to be unsafe. In a case where the OP says it was, in fact, unsafe because it was too low, what's the point in dissecting the law?

[GhostRai]

Solution: Drive a lifted truck. Then you can never drive too low. Only too high. When on drugs.

idk OP, probably can't fight it since at the time you were driving too low... I got a ticket once for turning right while a pedestrian was still crossing the intersection (Its a huge ass 6 lane road and he was almost at the other side, past the halfway point) Apparently I was suppose to wait until the other person steps on the opposite side of the sidewalk (which no one ever does)... I should have disputed it :/ Even my old driving instructor said it could have been disputed.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

If you're in violation of the code, then you're in violation of the code, and such is life. Which paragraph of the code defines your car being too low while driving, though? That's what we've been trying to find out.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=24400-24411

That is the most common one used to cite for excessive lowering, as it is a standard 12" for the fog lamps or 22" for middle of headlights.

As for the actual body:

24008.5. (a) No person shall operate any motor vehicle with a frame
height or body floor height greater than specified in subdivisions
(b) and (c).
(b) The maximum frame height is as follows:

Vehicle Type Frame Height
(1) Passenger vehicles, except 23 inches
housecars ...........................
(2) All other motor vehicles,
including housecars,
as follows:
Up to 4,500 pounds GVWR ............. 27 inches
4,501 to 7,500 pounds GVWR .......... 30 inches
7,501 to 10,000 pounds GVWR ......... 31 inches

(c) The lowest portion of the body floor shall not be more than
five inches above the top of the frame.
(d) The following definitions govern the construction of this
section:
(1) "Frame" means the main longitudinal structural members of the
chassis of the vehicle or, for vehicles with unitized body
construction, the lowest main longitudinal structural members of the
body of the vehicle.
(2) "Frame height" means the vertical distance between the ground
and the lowest point on the frame, measured when the vehicle is
unladen on a level surface at the lowest point on the frame midway
between the front axle and the second axle on the vehicle.
(3) "GVWR" means the manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating,
as defined in Section 390, whether or not the vehicle is modified by
use of parts not originally installed by the manufacturer.

The body part is meant to cover lifted vehicles.
Most officers will use the lighting part to cover the lowered cars.

To fight a "too low" ticket, you just have to make your front bumper higher.
The auto enthusiasts will give you the tasteless mod ticket, which is uncorrectable.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by GhostRai

Solution: Drive a lifted truck. Then you can never drive too low. Only too high. When on drugs.

See my previous post for max allowed for lifted vehicles.

-alex

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by qoncept

It's left intentionally ambiguous and at the officer's discretion. The point is that the car was "too low," it's that it was because it was determined to be unsafe. In a case where the OP says it was, in fact, unsafe because it was too low, what's the point in dissecting the law?

Because police officers can be wrong too, especially in areas that are ambiguous. I would make damn sure that I knew whatever I was charged with, and whether or not I was actually not in compliance with the law. Just because someone with a badge says he doesn't like it does not mean it's not in compliance. He's not required to like it; he's required to enforce the law.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Because police officers can be wrong too, especially in areas that are ambiguous. I would make damn sure that I knew whatever I was charged with, and whether or not I was actually not in compliance with the law. Just because someone with a badge says he doesn't like it does not mean it's not in compliance. He's not required to like it; he's required to enforce the law.

The original poster said the car was too low. End of story.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by mav1178

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=24400-24411

That is the most common one used to cite for excessive lowering, as it is a standard 12" for the fog lamps or 22" for middle of headlights.

And I'm fine with that. 24400, 24403, and 24008 establish specific requirements that must be met to be in compliance, and that's how it should be. Leaving it up to an individual's discretion as to what is correct or not is ineffective because it can change day to day, person to person. What if the guy is just in a pissy mood that day?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Because police officers can be wrong too, especially in areas that are ambiguous. I would make damn sure that I knew whatever I was charged with, and whether or not I was actually not in compliance with the law.

12" for fog light from level ground
22" for headlight from level ground (middle of headlight, or DOT "O" center markings if no "middle")

That was what I was cited for in approx. 2001. My aftermarket foglights were too low.

Every officer since that I've dealt with, has basically used the lighting code to reference a car that is "too low"

But like someone else said, it's the officer to give you a citation (or not) based on their judgment of what you are possibly in violation of. It's up to the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) to determine if you are in violation of that code or not.

24002. (a) It is unlawful to operate any vehicle or combination of
vehicles which is in an unsafe condition, or which is not safely
loaded, and which presents an immediate safety hazard.
(b) It is unlawful to operate any vehicle or combination of
vehicles which is not equipped as provided in this code.

See: all exhaust tickets, speeding, etc. Officers cite based on evidence, you can prove innocence via court, 3rd party inspections, or get it fixed, or pay the fine/bail, etc.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

And I'm fine with that. 24400, 24403, and 24008 establish specific requirements that must be met to be in compliance, and that's how it should be. Leaving it up to an individual's discretion as to what is correct or not is ineffective because it can change day to day, person to person. What if the guy is just in a pissy mood that day?

Let's say you have a stock Ferrari F458.

Let's say one officer swears your car is modified and is in violation of 95db sound limit. Another officer previously has said the sound is fine.

You will still get a ticket and have to run through the legal process if officer #1 insists your exhaust is illegal, whether that officer was correct or not.

Just because you got a ticket doesn't mean you are wrong.... it simply means a peace officer thinks you are in violation of a law or vehicle code. But a lot of people think of a ticket as a guilty stamp.

-alex