Daily driver reliability of FI frs??

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by nodeal

Awesome insight. It seems like you get much more for your money with the wrx than you do with the sti. I need to do more research, thanks again for the input.

please do, there are notorious ringland issues that haven't been addressed by Subaru..as a Subaru owner, I don't like the fact that they've been on denial of these issues, Mitsubishi (Evo) on the other hand continuously improved the motor and all the other quirks (stronger timing chain, revised transmission/diff parts etc)..if it doesn't have to be a Subaru (not sure why) I would definitely consider an Evo because of the reasons I've mentioned above..

overall, it's a better/reliable car (Evo) and a lot easier to work on..

[industrial]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

All of the EJ problems were fixed with the new motor. Those who trashed the FA and preferred the EJ didn't know what they were talking about.

The FA in the WRX is much less prone to head gasket leaks (happens to almost every EJ at 100k miles) The FA has better ringlands, that won't snap like an EJ's will (although I'm guessing newer iterations would be better against this). It's a smaller displacement motor, better fuel economy. Better fuel system. Stock for stock the WRX has a much more beautifully useable powerband than the STi.

Like I said, those who hate on the WRX motor and the FA20 don't bother to do their research and are quick to judge and hate.

The FA20DIT seems like a great motor but you are making some leaps. How the hell do you know that the FA20DIT won't have head gasket leaks? How many are up over 100k? Is there even 1? You would think newer is always better but that's hardly the case and Subaru doesn't have the greatest track record with their new F-series motors (see FB25 oil consumption issues).

Better fuel system for what? It's more efficient but anything beyond a simple intake/reflash/downpipe and you are in no-mans land for fueling. No options exist.

Crap on the old EJ all you want, it still produced great power and it's a completely proven platform. Want 275-600whp? There is a clear defined way to do it. You can say the FA20 powerband is "more useable" but honestly, both cars are plenty useable. Neither will feel like a v8, both feel like...turbocharged 4 bangers. Let's not pretend the EJ257/255 with a VF turbo is some anemic laggy thing. It's just slightly more laggy than the FA20DIT or EA888. Adding a tune/dp makes the EJ a torque monster.

All that said, I think the OP should get a new WRX. If you need a reliable and fun family car, just get it and stick with a reflash and enjoy. You won't get any real performance benefit from a sti over a wrx if you don't go do road course trackdays.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by industrial

The FA20DIT seems like a great motor but you are making some leaps. How the hell do you know that the FA20DIT won't have head gasket leaks? How many are up over 100k? Is there even 1? You would think newer is always better but that's hardly the case and Subaru doesn't have the greatest track record with their new F-series motors (see FB25 oil consumption issues).

Better fuel system for what? It's more efficient but anything beyond a simple intake/reflash/downpipe and you are in no-mans land for fueling. No options exist.

Crap on the old EJ all you want, it still produced great power and it's a completely proven platform. Want 275-600whp? There is a clear defined way to do it. You can say the FA20 powerband is "more useable" but honestly, both cars are plenty useable. Neither will feel like a v8, both feel like...turbocharged 4 bangers. Let's not pretend the EJ257/255 with a VF turbo is some anemic laggy thing. It's just slightly more laggy than the FA20DIT or EA888. Adding a tune/dp makes the EJ a torque monster.

All that said, I think the OP should get a new WRX. If you need a reliable and fun family car, just get it and stick with a reflash and enjoy. You won't get any real performance benefit from a sti over a wrx if you don't go do road course trackdays.

I agree with most of your sentiments, but let's be real here.. even the EJ257, the holy grail of EJ series USDM sti's, hardly put down "great power" with anything less than a fully built block and even then, reliability was suspect whenever someone ventured past 500whp. Even Crawford knew this when they initially pushed the limits of the EJ series.

Simply put it's a shit motor for the high HP realm, but loved all the same.

By comparison, the EJ205 is increasingly shown to be a huuuuuge downgrade from the FA20, both in horsepower potential and more importantly reliability. Time will ultimately tell. I have an EJ205 with a spun bearing in my garage on the stand right now..

[brianhj]

Oh look it's this thread again

[industrial]

Originally Posted by Koa

I agree with most of your sentiments, but let's be real here.. even the EJ257, the holy grail of EJ series USDM sti's, hardly put down "great power" with anything less than a fully built block and even then, reliability was suspect whenever someone ventured past 500whp. Even Crawford knew this when they initially pushed the limits of the EJ series.

Simply put it's a shit motor for the high HP realm, but loved all the same.

By comparison, the EJ205 is increasingly shown to be a huuuuuge downgrade from the FA20, both in horsepower potential and more importantly reliability. Time will ultimately tell. I have an EJ205 with a spun bearing in my garage on the stand right now..

The EJ205 was pretty much a turd, especially compared to the EJ207 which was the best engine of the EJ series. I don't know why you bring that motor up to compare with the FA20 since the EJ205 hasn't been used for 9 years or so. The EJ255 is about the same as the EJ257. Honestly, the only thing the 255/257 needs are forged pistons and a good tune. Saying that dropping in forged pistons is a "full engine build" isn't exactly accurate but the EJ isn't the easiest motor to take apart. They honestly don't need a whole lot of work to handle real power (350-500whp) which is exactly why they are so popular. They are no 4g63 or 4b11 but they are just a notch below since even the mitsu motors will need some work beyond 400whp or so.

The FA series motors seem to be winners so far but no one has pushed one very hard yet due to fueling issues. If they released an EVO with the FA20DIT motor everyone would be taking a giant crap on it. I'm not sure why there is such a fanbase for an unproven motor already other than most people are "stage 1" type people.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by glamcem

first of all street use hinders many potential problems that you may have to deal with down the road as opposed to track use, so if it lasts at the track it will definitely last in the street, adding a turbo for is a bigger project than adding a SC..

if this is your only car and will be used for DD for the most part, I would highly recommend you to consider a WRX instead of an STI, especially if you're not planning to track your car (you can still attend to track days occasionally with your WRX), the differences between STI and WRX only important when you track your car ..s

also motor in the WRX is a completely new design vs STIs 13 year old problematic EJ series (I owned two STIs as my title states) I would totally consider a WRX, save money and have a better/newer designed engine ..

you need to do your research on both cars..

I agree with the WRX over the STI especially for the money. I will say however in regard to the EVO being reliable my Evo 8 was a pile of shit. Although, it more than likely was beat to shit before I purchased it so I'm sure it's not representative of all Evo's by any means.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by raven1231

I agree with the WRX over the STI especially for the money. I will say however in regard to the EVO being reliable my Evo 8 was a pile of shit. Although, it more than likely was beat to shit before I purchased it so I'm sure it's not representative of all Evo's by any means.

Exactly iron block 4g63 is possibly one of the most reliable engines ever made, so who knows what the previous owner did to his car

[Koa]

Originally Posted by industrial

The EJ205 was pretty much a turd, especially compared to the EJ207 which was the best engine of the EJ series. I don't know why you bring that motor up to compare with the FA20 since the EJ205 hasn't been used for 9 years or so. The EJ255 is about the same as the EJ257. Honestly, the only thing the 255/257 needs are forged pistons and a good tune. Saying that dropping in forged pistons is a "full engine build" isn't exactly accurate but the EJ isn't the easiest motor to take apart. They honestly don't need a whole lot of work to handle real power (350-500whp) which is exactly why they are so popular. They are no 4g63 or 4b11 but they are just a notch below since even the mitsu motors will need some work beyond 400whp or so.

The FA series motors seem to be winners so far but no one has pushed one very hard yet due to fueling issues. If they released an EVO with the FA20DIT motor everyone would be taking a giant crap on it. I'm not sure why there is such a fanbase for an unproven motor already other than most people are "stage 1" type people.

The 255/257 didn't just need forged pistons and a good tune to crack and maintain over 400whp...

Just speaking about the USDM releases, which the EJ205 2.0 is. I realize this all bud I've been with subaru for a decade

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by industrial

The FA20DIT seems like a great motor but you are making some leaps. How the hell do you know that the FA20DIT won't have head gasket leaks? How many are up over 100k? Is there even 1? You would think newer is always better but that's hardly the case and Subaru doesn't have the greatest track record with their new F-series motors (see FB25 oil consumption issues).

for the reference, there are many STI owners who lost their engine due to ringland failures less than 3-4k on the clock, completely stock engines.. and the worst part is those issues are not easy to fix otherwise it would've been sold years ago.. I've met a guy yesterday, who ended up changing motors on his STI 5 times.. again FIVE .. if an engine designed for a turbo application (reinforced internals, lower compression) fails even when completely stock, it's a bad design in my book..

Crap on the old EJ all you want, it still produced great power and it's a completely proven platform. Want 275-600whp?

yeah, if you have deep pockets in order to get more than 340-350 whp with pump gas, you will need to change your turbo in Subarus whereas it only requires a few bolt ons with the Evo.. so to sum up, Subaru boxer engines and turbo is not a good design especially with the TMIC that will cause heat related issues for even mild track use

[industrial]

Originally Posted by glamcem

for the reference, there are many STI owners who lost their engine due to ringland failures less than 3-4k on the clock, completely stock engines.. and the worst part is those issues are not easy to fix otherwise it would've been sold years ago.. I've met a guy yesterday, who ended up changing motors on his STI 5 times.. again FIVE .. if an engine designed for a turbo application (reinforced internals, lower compression) fails even when completely stock, it's a bad design in my book..





yeah, if you have deep pockets in order to get more than 340-350 whp with pump gas, you will need to change your turbo in Subarus whereas it only requires a few bolt ons with the Evo.. so to sum up, Subaru boxer engines and turbo is not a good design especially with the TMIC that will cause heat related issues for even mild track use

I don't agree with most of what you say. The ringland issue exists but it's blown way out of proportion. I know all about the ringland "issue", I owned a 08' sti afterall. Read all about it on the forums but most of the time, it was people issues. Running intakes & downpipes without a tune, not keeping track of oil burning issues, bouncing off the rev limiter, etc. I met a guy yesterday that hasn't had to change his STI motor, not even once! That's what I call a bulletproof motor!~ Save the anecdotes for the fox news crowd.

Yeah, the evo makes more power than the sti with less mods. Therefore the sti is shit. Got it.

Yeah, the tmic will heat soak if your doing back to back drag strip runs or on the dyno. For the track? Seriously? Can't even do mild track use with a TMIC? Where do you even get this horseshit?

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by industrial

I don't agree with most of what you say. The ringland issue exists but it's blown way out of proportion. I know all about the ringland "issue", I owned a 08' sti afterall. Read all about it on the forums but most of the time, it was people issues. Running intakes & downpipes without a tune, not keeping track of oil burning issues, bouncing off the rev limiter, etc. I met a guy yesterday that hasn't had to change his STI motor, not even once! That's what I call a bulletproof motor!~ Save the anecdotes for the fox news crowd.

Yeah, the evo makes more power than the sti with less mods. Therefore the sti is shit. Got it.

Yeah, the tmic will heat soak if your doing back to back drag strip runs or on the dyno. For the track? Seriously? Can't even do mild track use with a TMIC? Where do you even get this horseshit?

Such rage. Love the fox news reference as it applies here and I get it. I have nothing substantial to add to this post. I'm the hecaler in the crowd.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by industrial

I don't agree with most of what you say. The ringland issue exists but it's blown way out of proportion. I know all about the ringland "issue", I owned a 08' sti afterall. Read all about it on the forums but most of the time, it was people issues. Running intakes & downpipes without a tune, not keeping track of oil burning issues, bouncing off the rev limiter, etc. I met a guy yesterday that hasn't had to change his STI motor, not even once! That's what I call a bulletproof motor!~ Save the anecdotes for the fox news crowd.

fan boys will be fan boys , you're on denial on many things just like the Fox news crowd , this is what a quick google search gave me..
http://goo.gl/cC1QdD

just because it didn't happen to your car doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds of pages of posts and owners ( with bone stock cars) , I've owned two of them, owning a motor like a ticking bomb is not fun..it's far from being a bulletproof engine

Yeah, the evo makes more power than the sti with less mods. Therefore the sti is shit. Got it.

no, Evo motors don't go kaboom with stock tune, that's why... lubrication is also another issue and that's by design, Inline 4 engines are less prone to oil starvation also with hard track use under consistent lateral g

Yeah, the tmic will heat soak if your doing back to back drag strip runs or on the dyno. For the track? Seriously? Can't even do mild track use with a TMIC? Where do you even get this horseshit?

from first hand experience of course, and that's the exact reason why so many people/teams who track these cars switch to FMIC right away, are we actually discussing this? it doesn't take a genius to figure out that an intercooler sits right top of the engine will heat soak...during a track event, you consistently rev the engine to the sky whereas in a controlled dyno environment you typically do just one pull, track use is a simple stress test ..period...

[industrial]

Originally Posted by glamcem

fan boys will be fan boys , you're on denial on many things just like the Fox news crowd , this is what a quick google search gave me..
http://goo.gl/cC1QdD

Did you just google something without reading any of the links? Hey guess what, MARTIANS EXIST!

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=martians+exist

Originally Posted by glamcem

just because it didn't happen to your car doesn't change the fact that there are hundreds of pages of posts and owners ( with bone stock cars) , I've owned two of them, owning a motor like a ticking bomb is not fun..it's far from being a bulletproof engine

My last comment in that paragraph was to make fun of you for using anecdotal evidence make a generalization. Which you just did again.

Originally Posted by glamcem

no, Evo motors don't go kaboom with stock tune, that's why... lubrication is also another issue and that's by design, Inline 4 engines are less prone to oil starvation also with hard track use under consistent lateral g

Yeah, evos have other issues.

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo...-failures.html

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo...e-reports.html

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo...atch-fire.html

Originally Posted by glamcem

from first hand experience of course, and that's the exact reason why so many people/teams who track these cars switch to FMIC right away, are we actually discussing this? it doesn't take a genius to figure out that an intercooler sits right top of the engine will heat soak...during a track event, you consistently rev the engine to the sky whereas in a controlled dyno environment you typically do just one pull, track use is a simple stress test ..period...

Are you fucking kidding me? You said, "can't even do mild track duty with TMIC!" That's WILDLY different than "PROFESSIONAL RACE CAR". I'm done here.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by industrial

Did you just google something without reading any of the links? Hey guess what, MARTIANS EXIST!

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=martians+exist

that's a poor analogy but yes I've read pages of threads on Nasioc, Iwsti and other forums and also spoke with many tuners and seen owners lost their completely stock engine (I was an active member of a local Subaru community also)...you can believe whatever makes you feel better but at the end of the day, the problem is still there and it's not going anywhere

My last comment in that paragraph was to make fun of you for using anecdotal evidence make a generalization. Which you just did again.

if you call thousands of posts, hundreds of pages of discussions and ringland failure an "anectodal evidence", ummm...yeahh..OK

Yeah, evos have other issues.

who said they don't? main difference is many car maker will address the issue, improve/renew the design instead of using the same old motor design over and over again.. and I am willing to bet you many people would much rather deal with small issues instead of a catastrophic engine faiure which may happen any time

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1632634

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/faq-newb...iles-wtf.html?

Are you fucking kidding me? You said, "can't even do mild track duty with TMIC!" That's WILDLY different than "PROFESSIONAL RACE CAR". I'm done here.

I've never used the word professional race car, do you really have any idea what it takes to make a professional race car? bone stock street driven cars pop the engine .. so a HPDE or lapping day just will put a lot more stress on a motor that is already problematic..
I am glad you've done here since this argument is not going anywhere with all this rhetoric,