Evo Magazine - GT86 better than BRZ

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Memphis

Im just saying, dont turn a blind eye towards the faults of the FR-S. How long will that experience last? After the hype dies down? After DD the car for a couple of months?

Ask Miata drivers, especially the NA and NB owners. Those cars are dog-slow by today's standards, but arguably more fun than any hot hatch on the road today. For some, the feeling never dies.

[Bristecom]

Haha, this is proof the 86/FR-S is better than the BRZ! BRZ can suck it! Hahahahahaha! (How's that?)

But seriously, it is interesting to hear the difference in suspension. I would really like to drive both a while to compare. They say the 86 has noticeably more roll in front and isn't quite as stable which I probably won't like. But at the same time they say it's more steady when controlling and recovering a slide with perhaps a more traditional/natural balance which I do want.

And also the 86 seems to be ever so slightly faster at the limit if you are able to balance the understeer and oversteer well enough which would be a fun challenge. While the BRZ seems to go into understeer right before the limits to keep you steady.

So because of the chassis, this appears to be a car that responds very positively to minor suspension changes. Which would make buying a good set of coilovers probably worth it. It would be fun and interesting to fine tune the suspension to exactly how you want and to be able to clearly feel those differences.

[IntenseDVDA]

Originally Posted by blu_

I would also vastly prefer a manual gt86 over an auto brz.

Right there with you.

[cossey]

Part of the "low rent interior" comments is down the the price, the UK car is expensive compared to the European rivals especially the new BMW M135i, which whilst being a hatchback, offers a 320bhp engine in a rear wheel drive chassis with a nice interior and with equivalent spec is ~£2000 more.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by uspspro

Manual > Auto

Yes we know.

This has gone back and forth plenty... The cars are essentially the same.

Randy Pobst was 1 sec faster around Streets of Willow in the BRZ compared to the FRS, while in some test in Japan the 86 was faster around the track.

The only thing different is a slightly softer front spring in the 86/FRS and supposedly different valving in the shocks. I cannot imaging one being superior to the other under all conditions. Some situations, and some drivers might prefer one vs the other, while many wont even notice the difference.

If you want to tweak the cars handling, get some adjustable dampers and change the spring rates...

Where is that dead horse smilie

If you watch the frs review hes kinda playing around drifting it... Lol explains a slower lap time slower=funner rediculously fast = dead

[StuttterButtter]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Haha, this is proof the 86/FR-S is better than the BRZ! BRZ can suck it! Hahahahahaha! (How's that?)

But seriously, it is interesting to hear the difference in suspension. I would really like to drive both a while to compare. They say the 86 has noticeably more roll in front and isn't quite as stable which I probably won't like. But at the same time they say it's more steady when controlling and recovering a slide with perhaps a more traditional/natural balance which I do want.

And also the 86 seems to be ever so slightly faster at the limit if you are able to balance the understeer and oversteer well enough which would be a fun challenge. While the BRZ seems to go into understeer right before the limits to keep you steady.

So because of the chassis, this appears to be a car that responds very positively to minor suspension changes. Which would make buying a good set of coilovers probably worth it. It would be fun and interesting to fine tune the suspension to exactly how you want and to be able to clearly feel those differences.

This makes me want the RS-R coilovers Moto has even more now!

[Levi]

For those planning on tracking their car and putting coilovers, there is no difference between them.

[86'd]

Originally Posted by Memphis

.... You know I understand where you are coming from. I truly do. I am in no way trying to troll or get on the bad side of anyone.

But am I truly beating a dead horse? The FR-S is more than just an "experience." Its supposed to handle as well. Albeit with driver connection. Yet a Mini S will "murder it." Mini S are fun as crap to drive.

There are people on here expecting this thing to at least keep up with other cars. The only car I have seen it actually beat is the Miata. Which, Miatas are fun as crap to drive as well.

Im just saying, dont turn a blind eye towards the faults of the FR-S. How long will that experience last? After the hype dies down? After DD the car for a couple of months?

This is the affordable sports car with RWD. Yet the Genesis is another viable option with pretty close to the same price tag even though its heavier and SUPPOSEDLY less engaging. Remember, looks and feel are subjective.

Its always something to think about. Its just taboo to bring it up here. In the end its just opinions mixed in with a little bit of facts. Opinions seem to be what will sell this car. Fact seems to be what will make some turn away which is fine. More cars for those that want it.

This will truly be an enthusiasts car if it cant compete with other cars regardless of the "experience." Not that I am the least bit upset about it.

The whole point with the 86 IMO is that you are buying it on it's merits and not other cars's.

Sure we can compare and contrast but ultimately it's just you and the car.

And that "experience" is a big part of this car. The connectedness that other drivers and reviews espouse, because not many other cars have this.

Proper pedal position, a positive switchgear, decent steering feedback, low seating position all add up to this experience. And these aren't as subjective as you make them out to be.

Things like sound and looks are more subjective, and personally think both are great.

The downside of the car is not that it's low on power; it's that its other great qualities; like the shifter, might not be appreciated as much as they should be comparatively.

So when EVO comes along and says, the 86/BRZ isn't what's its cracked up to be, I could care less.

And about the Mini S being more fun, I don't know about that. Granted I had an auto, but it had problems. That's a big factor that NEVER plays into a car review. BMWs and cars like the Mini always get high marks, but when it comes down to it will you own it for more than 5 years?

[Staticfrost]

Wow this guy needs to be fired!!!! He complains about the auto... and still thinks the brz is crap... get a manual brz and do the same fucke test... (also I'm an 8* fan boy). But this noob journo is very annoying.

Everyone would love more HP but that might effect the great driving dynamic

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by mines13

I'm sorry but this is one hell of a blanket statement. There are so many variables here that it is not even funny.

The WRX may beat up the FR-S in a straight line, but not on the track. I am ready to prove it if you are.

Same thing with the Mini cooper S. Actually I would say the FR-S will cream up the Cooper S in all respects.

And I am talking purely stock cars, no mods.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by 86'd

The whole point with the 86 IMO is that you are buying it on it's merits and not other cars's.

Sure we can compare and contrast but ultimately it's just you and the car.

And that "experience" is a big part of this car. The connectedness that other drivers and reviews espouse, because not many other cars have this.

Proper pedal position, a positive switchgear, decent steering feedback, low seating position all add up to this experience. And these aren't as subjective as you make them out to be.

Things like sound and looks are more subjective, and personally think both are great.

The downside of the car is not that it's low on power; it's that its other great qualities; like the shifter, might not be appreciated as much as they should be comparatively.

So when EVO comes along and says, the 86/BRZ isn't what's its cracked up to be, I could care less.

And about the Mini S being more fun, I don't know about that. Granted I had an auto, but it had problems. That's a big factor that NEVER plays into a car review. BMWs and cars like the Mini always get high marks, but when it comes down to it will you own it for more than 5 years?

Mini Coopers are very unreliable! Plus they are ugly and not cool like the FR-S\BRZ\86. Plus it's still FWD...

But the Cooper S is probably one of the best FWD cars out there. So I can't hate on it.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

The WRX may beat up the FR-S in a straight line, but not on the track. I am ready to prove it if you are.

Same thing with the Mini cooper S. Actually I would say the FR-S will cream up the Cooper S in all respects.

And I am talking purely stock cars, no mods.

I do not own a WRX, but if you have a 2012 WRX to loan me...

[MotoChris98]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Ask Miata drivers, especially the NA and NB owners. Those cars are dog-slow by today's standards, but arguably more fun than any hot hatch on the road today. For some, the feeling never dies.

Exactly. In my opinion, sheer performance on paper starts to get old as you get desensitized and used to it, it's the "fun" of driving and the intangibles of the car that stick and continue to really give joy to the driver. I have more fun driving my Miata than any of my previous cars.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Memphis

I wouldn't put the Mini out of its misery just yet.

I would...its dead...