Positives & Negatives On Kraftwerks Supercharger vs Jackson Racing Kits

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by LucidMomentum

The point that you're ignoring all the data we have on these kits because they're just a bunch of "graphs" and "broscience"?

What kind of data are you looking for?

I understand your point, that neither the JR and KW kits are perfect kits, and they function very similarly. I don't get why we keep cluttering up this thread with pedantry.

To bring up a more important question...Where did you get those headlights?

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Yoda

To bring up a more important question...Where did you get those headlights?

My sig is phtoshopped a bit for contrast. They're the black Winjet JDM replica headlights. Got them from FTEightSix.

*EDIT* Also to stay on topic, KW has no word / confirmation of being CARB legal yet.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by vgi

Actually, that chart is bogus and outdated, you know, statistics is funny in that way.


All the data is correct in the chart is correct... BUT


1. the chart should have used % of issues which it doesn't. There were a LOT of KW kits bought due to sale and group buys so more issues are expected. Eg let's say 5 people bought JR kit and had 1 issue (20%) vs 15 people bought KW kit and had 3 issues (the same 20%), but the number of failures that bar would show is 3 KW to 1
JR


2. The data pretty much reflects early sales issues. The kit was rushed to market so there were issues with packaging which is pretty much all those issues are (which the chart doesn't show either).


I have not seen any complaints from new owners.


As for broken belts - it's pretty much the same deal:


there is a known phone app for setting belt tension as well as new revision of pulleys and a longer belt which pretty much invalidates all previous broken belts issues (as who ever orders the kit now would get revised pulleys). A new data collection has to take place now to see if people still have broken belts issue with new pulleys and belt.



Since the thread discusses cons and pros for those considering buying the kits there is no point to discuss issues that have been (supposedly ) fixed. That is unless you simply enjoy bringing up the past issues and point your finger that KW kit wasn't it seems as well tested as JR kit before it was brought to the market. They do however have great support and do address any rising issues.



and all, pls stop the pissing contest, it doesn't do any good for the community

exactly what I tried to explain in my previous posts, instead of stating main differences (advantages/disadvantages) people tend to take it personal and blame real owners thanks for explaining how the data manipulation can be done (which I do on a daily basis) and those Excel bar graphs don't do any good for us to understand the difference a skew data and meaningful DATA,

if there was a controlled test in both dyno and track environment, -I am willing to bet you- with the same cooling mods and tune, results would be very close... that being said, I do my best to provide unbiased feedback (mainly track data)

so far the only meaningful comparison (by an objective, unaffiliated, 3rd party source) has been done by Drift Office ..and in that comparison KW has a slight advantage with lower IATs and that's about it..Bob already mentioned that KW is his favorite SC in that shootout because of the slighy advantages and I trust his opinion based on his solid experience and background on our platform..




BTW, what kind of APP is that? does it work like a guitar tuner? ( that captures and display frequencies of the pitches)

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by vgi

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=3092

cool, thanks again

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by vgi

1. the chart should have used % of issues which it doesn't. There were a LOT of KW kits bought due to sale and group buys so more issues are expected. Eg let's say 5 people bought JR kit and had 1 issue (20%) vs 15 people bought KW kit and had 3 issues (the same 20%), but the number of failures that bar would show is 3 KW to 1
JR

Just building on this.

It's unfortunately impossible to do a % unless the manufacturers release sales figures, which they both obviously will not.

An anecdotal (although marginal at best) observation would be that the KW kits are constantly in an on-going "Group Buy", while the Jackson Racing kit never goes on sale and is constantly backordered.

[industrial]

I'd also like to add that neither the KW or JR kit have led to any catastrophic or even major failures. (right? not counting things not being installed correctly) I haven't heard of any. Neither one will make significantly more or less power or be any more or less reliable in the grand scheme of things (it is the exact same blower after all). Both companies seem to provide excellent customer service. The things used to distinguish between the two are minor enough in my opinion that if there is a $1000 price differential (25%...absolutely massive), it becomes a no-brainer as to which to choose. If the difference was closer to $200 in favor of KW, I'd probably still go that way. If they were the same price, I'd fret. It's the same freaking blower. Install it correctly and you shouldn't have an issue with either kit.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by industrial

I'd also like to add that neither the KW or JR kit have led to any catastrophic or even major failures. (right? not counting things not being installed correctly) I haven't heard of any. Neither one will make significantly more or less power or be any more or less reliable in the grand scheme of things (it is the exact same blower after all). Both companies seem to provide excellent customer service. The things used to distinguish between the two are minor enough in my opinion that if there is a $1000 price differential (25%...absolutely massive), it becomes a no-brainer as to which to choose. If the difference was closer to $200 in favor of KW, I'd probably still go that way. If they were the same price, I'd fret. It's the same freaking blower. Install it correctly and you shouldn't have an issue with either kit.

Both have had engine failures, and I'd say all of the cases I've seen, the kit itself (when equipped with a C30-94 and standard pulley) cannot be faulted in any of those cases.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by vgi

You're right but it'd still be better if it were done based on registered owners count.

yep, based on that anecdotal observation it's safe to say that's the reason why KW is pushing so many kits. seems like just different marketing strategy.

To add to that, small inventory or back ordered cannot be the indicator of the quality of the merchandise alone, there could be a zillion of reasons for that such as the size of the company, suppliers, limited sale figures due to lack of demand..it's not like they sell 10kits everyday we would obviously see a lot more users here on the forums too...

Same can be said for the group buys, aggressive demand...called Economies of Scale)
maybe KW just sales more kits (ft86 is not the only platform they work on) so they get deeper discounts from the suppliers and they can reflect that to end buyers

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by industrial

I'd also like to add that neither the KW or JR kit have led to any catastrophic or even major failures. (right? not counting things not being installed correctly) I haven't heard of any. Neither one will make significantly more or less power or be any more or less reliable in the grand scheme of things (it is the exact same blower after all). Both companies seem to provide excellent customer service. The things used to distinguish between the two are minor enough in my opinion that if there is a $1000 price differential (25%...absolutely massive), it becomes a no-brainer as to which to choose. If the difference was closer to $200 in favor of KW, I'd probably still go that way. If they were the same price, I'd fret. It's the same freaking blower. Install it correctly and you shouldn't have an issue with either kit.

we still have to admit any power mod (especially the FI kits that add 100+whp) on our motors definitely increase the risks of potential failures but the good thing about Rotrex units they don't make massive amount of torques down low or generate a lot of heat..so it's the safe side of the spectrum, compared to big turbo in front of the engine type of kits

speaking of the price difference, I believe many members here were able to buy the KW with the group buy and the price difference was about $500..that's huge IMO, since it's about 12.5% less than the actual $4K MSRP of the both options

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by glamcem

To add to that, small inventory or back ordered cannot be the indicator of the quality of the merchandise alone, there could be a zillion of reasons for that such as the size of the company, suppliers, limited sale figures due to lack of demand..it's not like they sell 10kits everyday we would obviously see a lot more users here on the forums too...

Same can be said for the group buys, aggressive demand...called Economies of Scale)
maybe KW just sales more kits (ft86 is not the only platform they work on) so they get deeper discounts from the suppliers and they can reflect that to end buyers

That is a very optimistic perspective.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

That is a very optimistic perspective.

well, that is the realistic perspective that apply to any "build to order" business

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by glamcem

well, that is the realistic perspective that apply to any "build to order" business

Like JIT or Kaizen? So Toyota is going out of business too?

Just giving you some food for thought: kits that are meant to be stocked on the shelf are often purchased before they are completely packaged. Hence the idea of "build to order" has some sort of weight to it. On top of that, Jackson Racing constantly buys out all of Setrab's inventory. Is Setrab a "bad" company too?

Have you heard of Alibaba.com? I can tell you Alibaba is never short of inventory.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Like JIT or Kaizen? So Toyota is going out of business too?

I was referring to the smaller businesses if JR kit sells like Corollas, I take my word

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Like JIT or Kaizen? So Toyota is going out of business too?

Just giving you some food for thought: kits that are meant to be stocked on the shelf are often purchased before they are completely packaged. Hence the idea of "build to order" has some sort of weight to it. On top of that, Jackson Racing constantly buys out all of Setrab's inventory. Is Setrab a "bad" company too?

Have you heard of Alibaba.com? I can tell you Alibaba is never short of inventory.

oh come on now, when did I say "X" is a bad company?
that's good ol' rhetoric my friend