When does driving MT get "fun"

[Pbrown]

Originally Posted by Heero

Wow looks like there's alot of love for the MT out there! Thanks for the support everyone.

I'll admit I enjoy driving on open roads, but rush hour traffic really irks me. & Yes, I choose MT because it was cheaper, but also because of all the hype around driving a manual car lol

I still have another Couple weeks before the FRS rolls in to decide...

Quick questions for those who drive MT:

1. Whenever I shift gears (especially downshifting) my car jerks like the gears going in really rough. Do I just need to shift quicker? or more gas?

2. How do I control reverse gear? My reverse is pretty darn fast as soon as I release the clutch. ATM I'm just riding the clutch - but I'm guessing that's bad?

Thanks

Give it some time. It will become second nature, like its a part of you. The best pce of advice I can give you is do not downshift to slow the vehicle down, that is what brakes are for. When braking have the it nuetral and when you get to the speed that is appopriate for the situation just put it into the gear suitable for that speed. That will eliminate the jerkyness you are currently feeling and preserve your clutch.
Also I am 45 and used to drive auto's until a friend suggested the MT. Well its been 20 years now and I will never go back. Completely takes the fun out of it for me.

[TheJuggernaut]

Originally Posted by Chenslee

you can left foot brake AND downshift at the same time by rev matching and not using the clutch.

Not to tell anyone what to do but this is a bad idea and will kill a typical gearbox way before its time. It's not a matter of being a gearbox god but that modern street car transmissions use synchromesh. Think of it as a clutch on each gear designed to even the speed of the gear and the input shaft. These are relatively fragile but that's fine because they're designed to sync the speed of the input shaft and clutch alone, which have relatively low mass. If you try to shift without the clutch, these little clutches are now having to change the speed of the engine and it's not humanly possible to get the revs 100% right all the time so there will be intense wear on them whenever you do this.

Clutchless shifting is for non-synchro boxes, which, especially in racing applications, have straight cut gears which are very strong and large windows for the dogs to engage - so you have very good odds that even if you're off by 50-100rpm or something, you'll be able to slam it in.

[Heero]

Thanks for the tips everyone... When rev matching, do I:

1. Clutch pedal in
2. Press Gas
3. Down Shift
4. Clutch pedal Out

Or do I press the gas after I switch gears as I let the clutch out?

I think I'll give the MT a shot for a bit longer, but I'll get the FRS in auto just because of traffic + the fact that no1 in my family really drives MT.

Originally Posted by Saibot

uhh what car are you driving? SHARE

MX 6 with KLZE engine swap. I'll send you a text if you wana see it at loo.

Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut

So if this HAS to be your only car, while I think it's a shame (but only because ours is not intended for heavy traffic commuting but mostly strictly fun driving, like on track), in your situation, I wouldn't discount the auto. But I'd honestly recommend getting a 2nd car, like an older diesel Golf or Jetta, just for commuting, and keep the fun car with the fun transmission for fun driving.

Thanks for playing devils advocate I unfortunately can't afford 2 cars (especially not with the insurance rates we pay in the GTA...)

[TheJuggernaut]

Originally Posted by Heero

Thanks for the tips everyone... When rev matching, do I:

1. Clutch pedal in
2. Press Gas
3. Down Shift
4. Clutch pedal Out

Or do I press the gas after I switch gears as I let the clutch out?

No that's fine, it's just that after enough practice it will be a pretty fluid operation. You'll learn the dynamics of your engine and the ratio spacing of your transmission to get an organic feel for how much you need to rev. All cars are different too, which makes it even more enjoyable since it feels like personality. For instance, I can never shift a DA Integra smoothly because of it's massive flywheel, so by the time I'm ready with the next gear, the engine is still unwinding.

Originally Posted by Heero

Thanks for playing devils advocate I unfortunately can't afford 2 cars (especially not with the insurance rates we pay in the GTA...)

Well the thing is that if I'm the devil's advocate then I'm also the devil. When I was younger I was of the firm belief that automatics are for old farts who are dead inside, have no interest in cars and just need transportation. But I could only sell myself on that for so long. After a hard day's work or even worse, coming home from some intense physical activity, being stuck in traffic with a manual gets old and I finally realized that you need the right tool for the job.

I think what really changed the way I thought was when I started doing HPDEs and lapping days. At that point I realized that no street car will ever be as good as it could be on track due to mandatory compromises, and no street drive will ever be as fun as a track, also due to mandatory compromises (unless you have no concern for other people's lives).

So with all that in mind, I'm not saying get an auto 86. But you should aim to get a cheapie beater automatic for your commute. You should also get a PO box in Waterloo or ask a friend with a permanent address if you could change your insurance to be there. Insurance rates for KW area and GTA are on different planes of existence.

[Ad8707]

Originally Posted by Pbrown

Give it some time. It will become second nature, like its a part of you. The best pce of advice I can give you is do not downshift to slow the vehicle down, that is what brakes are for. When braking have the it nuetral and when you get to the speed that is appopriate for the situation just put it into the gear suitable for that speed. That will eliminate the jerkyness you are currently feeling and preserve your clutch.
Also I am 45 and used to drive auto's until a friend suggested the MT. Well its been 20 years now and I will never go back. Completely takes the fun out of it for me.

In regards to downshifting to slow the car down(engine braking) when approaching a stop from let's say 80km an hour, I use the brakes to slow down and kinda pop it into third when I'm on it's appropriate speed and let the clutch off (rpm will be between 2500to3000) so it would aid the brakes then sequentially go to second and first with the same technique. Is this really bad and wears out my clutch a lot?

[jenzan]

Originally Posted by Ad8707

In regards to downshifting to slow the car down(engine braking) when approaching a stop from let's say 80km an hour, I use the brakes to slow down and kinda pop it into third when I'm on it's appropriate speed and let the clutch off (rpm will be between 2500to3000) so it would aid the brakes then sequentially go to second and first with the same technique. Is this really bad and wears out my clutch a lot?

It wears out your clutch over time, but doesn't wear down your clutch a lot unless you're just letting go immediately. In which case you feel the huge jerk sensation which is the plate hitting your engine.

I personally rev match to make it a smooth transition. For a bunch of manual driving techniques here is helpful tutorial I found on Youtube.

How to Heel and toe, rev match, and double clutch
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxHi6FlGLo&feature=channel_video_title"]How to Heel and toe, rev match, and double clutch - YouTube[/ame]

Enjoy!

[RYU]

Originally Posted by bryan

There's little joy to driving in stop and go traffic regardless of your transmission. The only you would want in a situation like that is a good radio.

I respectfully disagree. In my original scenario switching to a vehicle with AT was paramount to preserving my sanity.

I'm taking a leap of judgement here (apologies ahead of time) but unless you've driven in "LA" traffic you really have no idea. I've driven in Manila and by far you're stopped more times than you're moving so at times I almost prefer the rest. Living in LA.. it's a constant 1-2-stop-1-2 and i've tried many different combinations of shifting strategies to no avail.

MT is fun but sometimes one has to weight their priorities and make a compromise. I'm just glad the AT in this thing doesn't seem to be a sh*tbox.

[TheJuggernaut]

Originally Posted by jenzan

It wears out your clutch over time, but doesn't wear down your clutch a lot unless you're just letting go immediately. In which case you feel the huge jerk sensation which is the plate hitting your engine.

I personally rev match to make it a smooth transition.

+1 I even know very seasoned lappers and autocrossers who just use the clutch to rev the motor up. It's especially safe with lower compression or smaller motors, and if you do it soon enough (not quickly, for the reasons jenzan says, just you start the process without letting the motor wind down).

But rev matching is the proper way to do it and like driving manual at all, eventually heel and toe becomes so easy and natural that you do it with zero effort in all daily driving. Your passengers will appreciate it too. You will too if you ever go on the track and start driving near 100%, where lack of revmatching is going to be akin to yanking the handbrake into a turn. At best, it will upset the car.

[TheJuggernaut]

Originally Posted by RYU

Living in LA.. it's a constant 1-2-stop-1-2 and i've tried many different combinations of shifting strategies to no avail.

Haha yeah, and trying to do the 1st gear idle crawl with a big gap ahead will probably get you shot

[bneale]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

so where does something like DSG fit in your neat little argument?

DSG is sort of half way between the 2. In the simplest form its just a fancy Auto which you can command control over. In my opinion, no user operated clutch means its not really "Manual".

Also, its not really an argument. More like what most companies actually do when they're making "pure drivers cars". The BMW 1 M is comes leaping to mind.

bneale

[7thgear]

Audi seems to have no problem winning lemans with your "not really manual" gearbox, i guess that's not a real sports car then..

Using your 2nd foot in no way makes the car more sports like.

The whole point of a manual car is dictating what gear you are in, it's unfortunate that we require a crutch to operate it as such. The clutch is stone age technology. You people really need to start looking ahead.

And yes i said you people.

[Jeff Lange]

Fastest around a track? Probably not going to an M/T.
Pure driving car? Probably should have an M/T.

Jeff

[Ad8707]

Thanks for the link. Shouldve learned that double clutching long time ago. Better late than never just in time for a new fresh clutch on frs.

[Atticus808]

ive only driven manual for all of 10 minutes before.
so every time you downshift a gear you have to give gas as well? (stupid question sorry)