Still can't decide on AT or MT for your first FRS/BRZ? This may help...

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I can honestly see only four-or-so reasons why you should buy the AT over the MT:

1. You sit in A LOT of traffic every day
2. You drive A LOT of miles and want the improved mileage. (At 15,000 mi/yr, you'd have to own the car for 4.5yrs before you'd break even for the added cost of the AT.)
3. You or a family member have a disability which prevents you from using a clutch pedal
4. You have a wife, girlfriend or daughter who will be driving the car and who refuses to drive stick (I don't mean to sound like a chauvinist; my girlfriend actually drives stick, too)
5. You're a typical lazy American who grew up on automatics and doesn't care that the rest of the world makes fun of us for driving autos all the time

Otherwise, you're spending $1,100 extra to get slightly decreased performance albeit with better fuel economy, and I would argue a tougher car to re-sell, since most enthusiasts will want the manual. Every single review of the car praises the manual for being fantastic, and the auto being good as well, but not as good as the manual. I could understand if the MT was rubbery, notchy or otherwise vague like it is in the Genesis Coupe, but considering that it's universally-praised, why wouldn't you get it?



I call BS! I drink coffee in my MT car every single day. The bumpy roads will spill the coffee before my shifting will.

Thanks to the Bluetooth, I no longer have to hold the phone to my ear with the right hand, steer with the left hand, and quickly let go of the steering to shift with my left hand (yep, I used to do this all the time, my friends and I used to joke about how we all did it).

Haha! I love and swear by manual transmission on sports car (I say this for the 18th time I think) And I know exactly what drives you to make this comment! I'm a SCCA Nationals driver!
Just saying try the AT so you know for sure and real, before you criticize it, as it isn't a normal AT we all know. Not convincing you to get one, just saying TRY one. I chose this AT while drving it all out on the raceway, after driving MT that was as sweet as the nicest of MT.
Not lazy here, just curious why for the first time in my life I had a smile driving a paddle shift car on the racetrack, so my first FRS among few others down the line over years, became an AT. Cool?

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Not wanting to learn how to properly drive an MT is a poor excuse in my book. This car should be the easiest car to heel/toe in.

Right yes, and I know how to do that too.
And pretty proficient at it too. Almost 20 years now on raceways here.

[Turbowned]

Totally cool. I'm actually going to drive a 6AT FR-S on June 6th when they have an event at Gillette Stadium.

Keeping in mind that 95% of all cars sold in the U.S. are equipped with automatic transmissions, I'm speaking more to the typical car buyer to try the MT before going with what in America is the natural choice. Working in sales, it's very rare that I have to try to convince a potential car buyer to go AT over MT; usually I'm trying to tell people to try the MT because it's more engaging.

But like Moto said: TRY BOTH before making the decision!

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Totally cool. I'm actually going to drive a 6AT FR-S on June 6th when they have an event at Gillette Stadium.

Keeping in mind that 95% of all cars sold in the U.S. are equipped with automatic transmissions, I'm speaking more to the typical car buyer to try the MT before going with what in America is the natural choice. Working in sales, it's very rare that I have to try to convince a potential car buyer to go AT over MT; usually I'm trying to tell people to try the MT because it's more engaging.

But like Moto said: TRY BOTH before making the decision!

According to *** at *** Scion dealership, the largest one in the USA who has 21 allocated to them initially, and taking lists, in the case of the FRS, completely unprecedented, that his pre-orders are 80% Manual!

nice huh?

[raphymartinez]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Maybe Moto can respond to my response here.... Isn't there a "sport mode" for the auto that allows snappier shifts that might be more DSG-like? If so did you use it? When I test drove the auto I forgot about this possibility, I just moved the shifter over to the left (the M position) but did not press any buttons. Probably going to M does automatically puts you in Sport mode too.

I am still on the fence, test drove both, but the manual drive was short (5 minutes). I thought the paddle shifting was about as good as you could get short of a Porsche double-clutch system. Even almost-instant double-downshifts right at your fingertips. Still I am a bit concerned about it feeling a little bit too much like driving a racing sim - I do enough of that on my PC! I totally agree that it makes near-the-limit cornering much more effective and far more enjoyable for those of us who don't heel-toe, you can downshift at optimal times while trail-braking without worrying about breaking the rear out thanks to the rev-matching. I am doing a longer test drive with a manual as soon as the dealer has his demonstrator, and may change my order to auto depending on that experience.

Yes, first thing I did when I got in was press the sport button for the transmission. But again, I didn't drive it enough to get a good feel for it. Just a straight shot and a couple of shifts.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Not wanting to learn how to properly drive an MT is a poor excuse in my book. This car should be the easiest car to heel/toe in.

Not everyone may have the time, patience, or skill to learn it, and some may not want to put their brand new toy at risk from screwed-up shifts.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Not everyone may have the time, patience, or skill to learn it, and some may not want to put their brand new toy at risk from screwed-up shifts.

hahaha! But unlike a normal AT, this AT will let you screw up on the track! It's that good!

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

Yes, first thing I did when I got in was press the sport button for the transmission. But again, I didn't drive it enough to get a good feel for it. Just a straight shot and a couple of shifts.

But if I understand what Moto was saying you were still using auto-shifting via the ECU, just in Sport mode - not the paddles. For paddle shifting all you needed to do was move the lever over to M.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

hahaha! But unlike a normal AT, this AT will let you screw up on the track! It's that good!

Yes - what I meant was it won't let you blow up your engine by over-revving or crisping your clutch through mis-matched shifts.

[Moto-P]

Originally Posted by raphymartinez

Yes, first thing I did when I got in was press the sport button for the transmission. But again, I didn't drive it enough to get a good feel for it. Just a straight shot and a couple of shifts.

Easiest way to experience full manual mode on the AT is to stick the lever in M, then hit the TRC switch for 3 sec till both OFF lights come up on the cluster.

[raphymartinez]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

But if I understand what Moto was saying you were still using auto-shifting via the ECU, just in Sport mode - not the paddles. For paddle shifting all you needed to do was move the lever over to M.

Pressed the sport button and used the paddles. What I'd like is for a program change where in sport mode it has more "feel" every time you shift.

[Dave-ROR]

Good post for those who can't decide.

For me, I have absolutely NO desire to even test drive the 6AT because I simply would not want one. I enjoy shifting the car and driving a manual transmission car, so why would I consider something that lacks something I enjoy doing? Especially something so integral to the driving experience for me? :shrug:

I don't care if people buy the AT car though.

[michaelahess]

Very good review, thank you Moto-P!

I'm sticking with my manual (BRZ) as I just miss the hell out of driving a standard. I learned to drive on a stick. I just love the interaction of them. Pulling a flappy paddle just isn't engrossing enough for me. Ego maybe? The little thrill of just throwing the stick around? Knowing it's engaging the next bit of driving ecstasy? Vs the "Bump" of the little paddle?

I'm never going to track this car, it will be my fourth vehicle for occasional driving (lol, occasional....) and I live in Wyoming where there is NO traffic. It's perfect for me!

Hell I used to enjoy driving my Celi around Chicago and Minneapolis traffic with it's stick, that's fun to me. Don't think I would ever be able to go Auto for a car like this....

[mechaghost]

Originally Posted by Moto-P

Here's another suggestion. Just assume that the MANUAL transmission on the FRS is PERFECT as such, and I can attest that the most critical of journalists and pro drivers all approve and commend on the shift process, gear ratios, and build, as well as clutch actuation. And be confident that if you choose a manual, it is one of the best in the industry, and that your expectations are met.

SOOO!! Having said this, it is the automatic in the FRS that needs a bit of seat time to see the real greatness. In the NORMAL mode, things are just plain as a Camry in operation. No fun there right? But if you have time, push the VSC to SPORT, and Transmision shift pattern to SPORT (two green lights come on indicating SPORT VSC, and SPORT) Here, the transmission is still very automatic, but will go into a mode where if you are sporting the car, the transmission is programmed to maximize power, and allow for vigorous motions and even intuitively know you are braking into a corner apex, and shift DOWN accordingly at the moment it chooses this is appropriate. I took a few laps in this mode and once I understood what it was doing at what occasion, it was quite fun and appropriately making decsions for me. I say that is ideal for canyon roads where you want to enjoy some sports driving, but leaving you with some critical control margins to help you safely get through the unexpected with VSC still keeping check on extreme behaviors like unintentional under or over-steer of large degree whether by driver error or hitting a big patch of sand or water. This won't eliminate stupid driving but it sure does help in making the right choice when your $30,000 car purchase is on the line (VSC is also on MT as well, but not tied to the brain of shifting patterns like the AT, obviously)

If you have the time, you can test the "hidden" feature too, where you press on the TRC switch for more than 3 seconds, which eliminates ALL ASSIST. and two yellow lamps on the dash indicate OFF OFF. Here you have full MANUAL control of the transmission, allowing you to hit and stay on the rev limit if you choose to do so. And also, to change gear anywhere in the range as long as the next lower gear will not over-rev the engine beyond the limit. It will also allow your car to spin, fall off the road, smoke tires, kill parts, just as if you had a manual.

Only thing you can't do really, is the clutch pedal drop to instantly disengage the driveline... Which isn't really a feature but a necessity in changing gears on a manual transmission. Well if drifting is your thing, then yes a manual does have the ability to intentionally disrupt the contact patch by sending driveline shocks, (called clutch kicking by us who do this, a term we invented in Japan back in the 80's but being the same thing that Rally drivers did since the beginning of time). But alternate method of e-brake to break contact patch is also available to AT users just as well, and for all but the competition drifters, this can be used to initiate a drift. Advanced pro drifting does require driveline shocking to maintain a long drift where the car isn't behaving well enough, or doesn't have the power and gear ratios to sustain the wheel-spin, but at this level of needs and prupose, everyone SHOULD have a manual for that anyway. Just saying it isn't impossible even for the AT to enjoy a fun day in a safe drift day environment.

Digressing here a bit so I'll go back to saying...

TRY the AT by spending more time test driving it, as this is really more the odd-ball choice where unexpected pleasures can be coaxed, only by knowing how to use it in different modes of operation, and is less traditional of the two. Get to know the magic of this one, by spending lots of time on this. As once you do, its pretty addictive and capable, despite our own preconception of how much we hated the AT in the past. All I am saying here is check this AT out well, as in the hands of someone who might want a Camry ease on a daily basis, its a pretty delightful thing to see it behave so enjoyably even for a seasoned MT lover, in a revolutionary way.

Manual is a manual, its as slick as ever and we all already know how to use one, if you know how to drive one. If you made up your mind on the manual, I will just say DO that as I wouldn't doubt your choice based on desires to have a MT.

That would be my best suggestion for a person going to test-drive an FRS.

I ejnoy the manual more on almost every sports oriented car I drive, but this is one AT that won my heart for the time being...and the first ever to do so.

I have a AT BRZ, and I completely agree! The default AT is definitely in "eco" mode where the tranny will keep the revs as low as it can with the highest gear possible. It still shifts fast in eco, but it will feel a little bit sluggish when you push the pedal harder. I tried out sport on VSC sport yesterday and I was amazed by how different the car reacted to me, everything was a lot preppier and responsive. Crusing revs were kept higher as well.

I'm still breaking in the car, so I have not tried any real spirited driving. Hopefully that will come soon hehe