SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by TRev

Here is my experience...

I have the SoloStorm connectivity package with a GoPro. I used it extensively in 2013 and it is a great program and even more so support was awesome. If data logging is something you are interested in trying, it is a great place to start. I wouldn't dive in too much deeper at the start.

I found that data logging and video took away too much from my concentration and enjoyment. I had messed with data acquisition and video for many years and it started to feel like a job. In 2014, I didn't capture any data or video. I solely focused on course line, car feel, mental replay, competitor feedback, and times.

Data definitely has the potential to make a person and car faster. For me, focusing on my sensory inputs seems to get the job done more effectively. I am confident my car had the setup to potentially win every event I attended this past year. I am not saying my car setup was better only that I had the potential to make up the disparity between my placement in class and first. In the cases where I did not win with similar cars in class, I knew mentally where I had given up time on course that would have allowed me to win. It was a driver issue that I was already aware of and data logging would have only reaffirmed that.

This is interesting. Man, the data collection camp seems so split. My old boss, Kinch Reindl, used to be huge into data collection. He was 3rd STC last year at Nats and I don't think he even had a camera on his car. I asked him about it and he said that logging data was useful because he learned that the tightest line is always fastest and that was all.

[AustinTX]

Things data teaches you - stuff you should already know, but feel like you want to try it a different way anyway. Listen to your elders. haha

[vroom4]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

This is interesting. Man, the data collection camp seems so split. My old boss, Kinch Reindl, used to be huge into data collection. He was 3rd STC last year at Nats and I don't think he even had a camera on his car. I asked him about it and he said that logging data was useful because he learned that the tightest line is always fastest and that was all.

That's the EXACT same thing Ive learned from data.

[DylanFRS]

If I find a co-driver this year that can consistently beat me in my car, would you guys feel differently about the usefulness of data/video?

[Biggins]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

If I find a co-driver this year that can consistently beat me in my car, would you guys feel differently about the usefulness of data/video?

Maybe?

I used data for the first time at Nats last year. I found it very frustrating. It showed I was more fast-in, slow-out and my co-driver was more slow-in, fast-out, but we ran identical times and overthought everything by the time the event was done. We both coned away our trophy chances on separate days. We were never more than a couple tenths apart either way all season and plenty successful without data.

[TRev]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Maybe?

I used data for the first time at Nats last year. I found it very frustrating. It showed I was more fast-in, slow-out and my co-driver was more slow-in, fast-out, but we ran identical times and overthought everything by the time the event was done. We both coned away our trophy chances on separate days. We were never more than a couple tenths apart either way all season and plenty successful without data.

I did have one co-drive experience (multiple time National Champ and driver of Eminence) where it was useful. We were seeing something similar to what Biggins described. I was faster all the way through corner exit but my co-driver would carry more speed to the next corner. The end result was he bested me by .041 seconds. As we discussed driving style, the primary difference we found was that he almost solely left foot brakes and I almost never do. Scientifically makes sense due to the time it takes to physically move my foot from the gas pedal to the brake.

My number one goal for this year is to primarily use left foot braking at local events and depending on results/comfort level start doing so at the National level. If I am able to do so effectively, it should make me a faster driver. I spoke to a couple seasoned drivers last year who made the switch. One said that it took him a full season to adjust and the other said it took here a few months.

The other detail that was easy to see from the logs after our co-drive was that I also gained a bit of time off the line due to differences in launch technique.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Maybe?

I used data for the first time at Nats last year. I found it very frustrating. It showed I was more fast-in, slow-out and my co-driver was more slow-in, fast-out, but we ran identical times and overthought everything by the time the event was done. We both coned away our trophy chances on separate days. We were never more than a couple tenths apart either way all season and plenty successful without data.

The point is that you're supposed to act on the data. Try going slower in, figure out what kind of line that gives you and see what it does for your times. If they don't get faster, don't do it anymore.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

If I find a co-driver this year that can consistently beat me in my car, would you guys feel differently about the usefulness of data/video?

having a faster co-driver and being able to log them and overlay over your own performance will cut your learning times ten-fold, if not faster.


A single event (5-6 runs) will provide you with tons of data points to analyze and focus on the next event. You'd have to run a whole year side by side to truly learn what makes them faster. A graphical overlay will give you all the "WOW, I see now" moments and make adjusting your driving much easier. (but not on the fly, that is very difficult).


Some people are skeptical because they've been doing it for a very long time, and believe that all anyone needs to do is just drive their cars. Well, datalogging will help you (if you let it) cut down on the amount of driving you need to do before improving.

Like, I only get 4-5 months worth of autocross per year. Last year I did 15 events and was busy nearly every weekend.... my wife certainly did not like that. I had to make every event count.

[Biggins]

Originally Posted by TRev

I did have one co-drive experience (multiple time National Champ and driver of Eminence) where it was useful. We were seeing something similar to what Biggins described. I was faster all the way through corner exit but my co-driver would carry more speed to the next corner. The end result was he bested me by .041 seconds. As we discussed driving style, the primary difference we found was that he almost solely left foot brakes and I almost never do. Scientifically makes sense due to the time it takes to physically move my foot from the gas pedal to the brake.

My number one goal for this year is to primarily use left foot braking at local events and depending on results/comfort level start doing so at the National level. If I am able to do so effectively, it should make me a faster driver. I spoke to a couple seasoned drivers last year who made the switch. One said that it took him a full season to adjust and the other said it took here a few months.

The other detail that was easy to see from the logs after our co-drive was that I also gained a bit of time off the line due to differences in launch technique.

I'll have some more good drivers take a spin at test-n-tunes again, but I know my biggest problem is still not looking far enough ahead... and hitting cones. I coned away so many winning/good runs last year.

Originally Posted by qoncept

The point is that you're supposed to act on the data. Try going slower in, figure out what kind of line that gives you and see what it does for your times. If they don't get faster, don't do it anymore.

It's tough to act on any data in the middle of the biggest event of the year when our times were identical. We just accepted that we have different driving styles to get to the same place. If I have a codriver and he wants to do data, maybe we'll try it at a test-n-tune this year.

I have to step back a little this year due to the unlucky National schedule, but I'm hoping to do Nationals in CS even though the Thu/Fri run days make it very tough. The only other National event possibility for me looks like the Toledo Match event.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Maybe?

I used data for the first time at Nats last year. I found it very frustrating. It showed I was more fast-in, slow-out and my co-driver was more slow-in, fast-out, but we ran identical times and overthought everything by the time the event was done. We both coned away our trophy chances on separate days. We were never more than a couple tenths apart either way all season and plenty successful without data.

If you want to compare yourself to a codriver, being able to break your runs down into sectors is huge. As you noted, you two are fast in different ways and end up with the same time - sectors can help you identify the differences.

This isn't super helpful at nats itself - IMO nats is "put up or shut up" time, and even if you can learn something from day 1 it's probably not going to help you any on day 2 (not true for the pro finale though). You should do this all season long with your codriver so you both can work on your weaknesses. The fastest guys have few weaknesses but are aware of them and know how to cover for them.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Biggins

It's tough to act on any data in the middle of the biggest event of the year when our times were identical. We just accepted that we have different driving styles to get to the same place. If I have a codriver and he wants to do data, maybe we'll try it at a test-n-tune this year.

I have to step back a little this year due to the unlucky National schedule, but I'm hoping to do Nationals in CS even though the Thu/Fri run days make it very tough. The only other National event possibility for me looks like the Toledo Match event.

Oh, I know. I've been using Solostorm for a year and a half and haven't gained a bit of useful knowledge from it. It's just clunky enough and I'm just dumb enough that I couldn't possibly sit down with it and learn anything, let alone during an event.

But knowing is clearly only half the battle.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by qoncept

Oh, I know. I've been using Solostorm for a year and a half and haven't gained a bit of useful knowledge from it. It's just clunky enough and I'm just dumb enough that I couldn't possibly sit down with it and learn anything, let alone during an event..

You are the second or third person in this thread to mention Solostorm being a bit clunky. I am surprised to hear this, I was thinking it was pretty smooth, especially for the $200 price tag.

[vroom4]

It is solid if you don't try and get the updates the day they are released. I am downloading the latest version every week, so there is always bugs with the new functions.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

You are the second or third person in this thread to mention Solostorm being a bit clunky. I am surprised to hear this, I was thinking it was pretty smooth, especially for the $200 price tag.

My experience:

- Auto start/stop is a complete crapshoot. I trusted it for a single event and ended up with nothing usable. Half the runs never recorded and a couple ended up split in to 2 weird runs (minimum speed trigger, I guess). Now I start and stop recording manually.

- Because I can't rely on autostart, full run times are off by enough that they are no good for comparison.

- GPS ends up with an offset frequently. I don't have any examples, but if I overlay consecutive runs, the overlays will end up "off" by about the width of a runway sometimes. As in the traces are like a double image. This is with the Qstarz receiver sold on by Petrel.

- I CANNOT get the TPS calibrated correctly using a generic OBD-II dongle. Last attempt got it to max out at 103%.

- The calibration for videos is off no matter what I do, even though it's supposed to be automatic, and I think by a varying amount in each video. I just can't get the gopro and internal camera synced, and Solostorm doesn't offer any manual adjustment to the overlay videos.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NicnsB6TZY"]DMVR SCCA Autox - 6/1/2014 - Run 1 - YouTube[/ame]

As a software developer I look at Solostorm and see a very, very ambitious attempt that's mostly there. But fixing the small issues above is probably an enormous task. I bought it more than anything to make pretty videos. I think a properly precise and trouble-free setup would have to be much more restrictive with the hardware it can use - probably exclusive.