Scion FT-86 FR-S

[YourFearlessLeader]

to be honest... what does this car being a scion mean to you rather than it being a toyota? nothing. a badge. you will get the same aftermarket support, go to the same dealer for warranty parts and service. who cares if "toyota needs this, or toyota needs that". it really means nothing to you. You will get the same car regardless if it comes out toyota or scion.

[oneday]

Yes, I have a tC. It is made by Toyota and sold (branded) as a Scion. I have no love lost for the Scion branding machine. The car met my needs when I bought it and it has served me well since then. Just because I own one does not mean it is the first car I have ever bought, nor does it make me a life-long supporter.

Let me make it a bit clearer for any badge fan bois that don't get it: If the FT-86/FR-S checks off all the right boxes (i.e.: small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced, fixed roof coupe) then it could be sold as an Izuzu for all I care...it's still made by ToMoCo so it matters very little what badging is on it. Now, if it handles well and makes decent torque I'll be a huge fan, and might consider it for a future vehicle.

For all the dash strokers talking about how if the car comes as a Scion it will have bad interior materials: The only interior materials that really matter in a car of this ilk are the seats, steering wheel, pedals and shift lever.
Are the seats supportive?
Is the shift lever proximity to the steering wheel correct and is the lever/knob weighted properly?
Are the pedals positioned to allow for heel-toe?
Does the steering wheel deliver enough tactile feedback and does it provide enough room to left foot brake and/or heel-toe--it is worth noting that the steering wheel in the new tC is reported to be the best driver interface this side of a European RS4 (not my words, that comparison comes from Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman).

[Dark]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

to be honest... what does this car being a scion mean to you rather than it being a toyota? nothing. a badge. you will get the same aftermarket support, go to the same dealer for warranty parts and service. who cares if "toyota needs this, or toyota needs that". it really means nothing to you. You will get the same car regardless if it comes out toyota or scion.

Then if you don't want to hear me moaning about what Toyota needs, I should tell about what I need. I need a Toyota or Subaru of FT-86, not Scion one. Ask yourself when you have an up-to-date Lexus, do you want to be in Scion family? No offend to Scion fans. You could be careless about brand image, and you may care more about how the car handle. Well, true, but in some cases it's not. Look at Mitsu Evo X, its handling is much better than most cars on the market, why it doesn't sell well? why Subaru STi that has similar price, but lost in many comparisons sell better? It's the brand image that convinces people. I think if you're a boss of a company, you don't have to advertise your products because it's good. But hey, no offend, you can like whatever.

[blur]

It's obviously all about the badging, , if scion reps are already telling us it will come with a NA 2.5l engine . . . just for Scion, of course. Oh and lets not forget all the scion fans who will demand more fuel efficiency, creature comforts, softer suspension, a more boxy look, and FWD for less risk driving it to school everyday.

[DantKR]

Originally Posted by blur

It's obviously all about the badging, , if scion reps are already telling us it will come with a NA 2.5l engine . . . just for Scion, of course. Oh and lets not forget all the scion fans who will demand more fuel efficiency, creature comforts, softer suspension, a more boxy look, and FWD for less risk driving it to school everyday.

Until official word comes out it would seem to be a much safer bet. All our US version subbies come w/ 2.5L instead of 2.0 that are in Japan.

And gimmie a STi over a Evo any day of the week...

Also, lets not forget that it's a sports car... not another TC. So how about you just stop assuming shit and WAIT until TOYOTA comes out with some OFFICIAL NEWS. And then if they make it something it's not, then we can all bitch up a fucking storm. But if it's Scion, 2.0L, lightweight, RWD, reliable, looks good, then we can all just stfu.

[FT-HS]

Originally Posted by oneday

Yes, I have a tC. It is made by Toyota and sold (branded) as a Scion. I have no love lost for the Scion branding machine. The car met my needs when I bought it and it has served me well since then. Just because I own one does not mean it is the first car I have ever bought, nor does it make me a life-long supporter.

Let me make it a bit clearer for any badge fan bois that don't get it: If the FT-86/FR-S checks off all the right boxes (i.e.: small, lightweight, RWD, reasonably priced, fixed roof coupe) then it could be sold as an Izuzu for all I care...it's still made by ToMoCo so it matters very little what badging is on it. Now, if it handles well and makes decent torque I'll be a huge fan, and might consider it for a future vehicle.

For all the dash strokers talking about how if the car comes as a Scion it will have bad interior materials: The only interior materials that really matter in a car of this ilk are the seats, steering wheel, pedals and shift lever.
Are the seats supportive?
Is the shift lever proximity to the steering wheel correct and is the lever/knob weighted properly?
Are the pedals positioned to allow for heel-toe?
Does the steering wheel deliver enough tactile feedback and does it provide enough room to left foot brake and/or heel-toe--it is worth noting that the steering wheel in the new tC is reported to be the best driver interface this side of a European RS4 (not my words, that comparison comes from Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman).

I agree with oneday

The five threads about the car being a Scion is hilarious, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.

[blur]

Originally Posted by DantKR

Also, lets not forget that it's a sports car... not another TC. So how about you just stop assuming shit and WAIT until TOYOTA comes out with some OFFICIAL NEWS. And then if they make it something it's not, then we can all bitch up a fucking storm. But if it's Scion, 2.0L, lightweight, RWD, reliable, looks good, then we can all just stfu.

That's the thing, Toyota themselves haven't even stated officially if it will be a Scion or not. So should we STFU about all this Scion talk too?

[Dimman]

My issue with Scion is how it talks down to me as a real enthusiast. There is nothing real about Scion performance. There was no reason for Toyota to produce it. It's marketing vs engineering. For all the tC performance nut-swingers, enjoy your 'cool' 2 door Camry-powered Corolla. Then roll over and die for supporting the marketing decision with real dollars. xB types, Element was available before it, Cube subsequent to it. Again die, and take the Toyota North America Scion-creating retards with you...

That is just for Scion's existence. If the FT/R-86/S comes out as a Scion, I will be buying the Subaru version, a company that earned its performance reputation through engineering and reality... As well as giving up on new Toyotas.

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by Dimman

My issue with Scion is how it talks down to me as a real enthusiast. There is nothing real about Scion performance. There was no reason for Toyota to produce it. It's marketing vs engineering. For all the tC performance nut-swingers, enjoy your 'cool' 2 door Camry-powered Corolla. Then roll over and die for supporting the marketing decision with real dollars. xB types, Element was available before it, Cube subsequent to it. Again die, and take the Toyota North America Scion-creating retards with you...

That is just for Scion's existence. If the FT/R-86/S comes out as a Scion, I will be buying the Subaru version, a company that earned its performance reputation through engineering and reality... As well as giving up on new Toyotas.

It's comments like these that show just the amount of self-importance some people have. Roll over and die? Really? Just because you have this notion that the Scion company seemed to "talk down" to you, you would go so far as to wish the people who buy those products to die? Metaphorically speaking or not, the problem is not the company. It's the ego. I swear, I'm so tired of this whining and all the "I'm a one-of-a-kind purist/enthusiast and I hate Scion" crying. It's like no one these days has any patience or courtesy. And forget the arguments of "it helps to pass the time". Passing the time shouldn't be at the expense of insults to those who drive Scions. All I'm asking for is a shred of decency. If you Scion-haters think that's too much to ask, then I don't know if you should belong to any community, online or not.

And it's not just anti-Scion sentiment I'm seeing on these boards. It's stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that. People just need to stop. Yeah, you're awesome. You drive a fast, expensive, and/or unique car. You're great. I hope that one day I can be as cool as you. But until then, I'd like to enjoy my time reading about an interesting car without having to cringe whenever insults are hurled without thought. Brag all you want about yourselves, just for God's sake don't put others down. Please.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by ryun84

It's comments like these that show just the amount of self-importance some people have. Roll over and die? Really? Just because you have this notion that the Scion company seemed to "talk down" to you, you would go so far as to wish the people who buy those products to die? Metaphorically speaking or not, the problem is not the company. It's the ego. I swear, I'm so tired of this whining and all the "I'm a one-of-a-kind purist/enthusiast and I hate Scion" crying. It's like no one these days has any patience or courtesy. And forget the arguments of "it helps to pass the time". Passing the time shouldn't be at the expense of insults to those who drive Scions. All I'm asking for is a shred of decency. If you Scion-haters think that's too much to ask, then I don't know if you should belong to any community, online or not.

And it's not just anti-Scion sentiment I'm seeing on these boards. It's stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that. People just need to stop. Yeah, you're awesome. You drive a fast, expensive, and/or unique car. You're great. I hope that one day I can be as cool as you. But until then, I'd like to enjoy my time reading about an interesting car without having to cringe whenever insults are hurled without thought. Brag all you want about yourselves, just for God's sake don't put others down. Please.

Ok guys calm down. Just chill... Ok?

I don't like the idea of making FT-86 a Scion, but I respect the brand. It brings most young buyers, and that's about it. I'm Asian, and I'm more familiar with Toyota than Scion. Toyota to me is s.th that hard to replace. It's the reason why I like Subaru and Yamaha because they are under Toyota's umbrella now. If it comes out as Scion. I get Subaru, you get Scion. That's it. If it comes out as Scion only. I rebadge to Toyota or Subaru or whatever.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

Originally Posted by ryun84

It's comments like these that show just the amount of self-importance some people have.
I am #1, why shouldn't I be declaring self-importance to the internet?

And forget the arguments of "it helps to pass the time". Passing the time shouldn't be at the expense of insults...
Where the heck is the fun in being decent? Especially online!

It's stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I think I love you.

Yeah, you're awesome. Thanks, I know. You drive a fast, expensive, and/or unique car. You're great. I hope that one day I can be as cool as you. But until then, I'd like to enjoy my time reading about an interesting car without having to cringe whenever insults are hurled without thought. Brag all you want about yourselves, just for God's sake don't put others down. Please.

As I said before -- Fuck. Toyota or Bust.
The tid-bit about "stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that" is exactly why TOYOTA (Yes, not Scion) needs this car. Scion can die as a brand, it failed when they decided to be boring.

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

As I said before -- Fuck. Toyota or Bust.
The tid-bit about "stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that" is exactly why TOYOTA (Yes, not Scion) needs this car. Scion can die as a brand, it failed when they decided to be boring.

That's fine. I don't mind when people mention the faults of a brand just as long as they don't start ridiculing the drivers of the cars in question. I drive a Scion tC. It doesn't mean I'm in love with it or the brand and it doesn't make me some box-loving, anti-enthusiast, wannabe-racer. But even if someone were all those things, it doesn't give anyone the right to insult said person. If you do, then it just makes you an ass. Anyways, I would agree with your post that Toyota definitely needs some pep in their lineup. But until Toyota OFFICIALLY comes forward to spell out their plans for the FT-86, I'm just going to wait and hope things work out.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by ryun84

It's comments like these that show just the amount of self-importance some people have. Roll over and die? Really? Just because you have this notion that the Scion company seemed to "talk down" to you, you would go so far as to wish the people who buy those products to die? Metaphorically speaking or not, the problem is not the company. It's the ego. I swear, I'm so tired of this whining and all the "I'm a one-of-a-kind purist/enthusiast and I hate Scion" crying. It's like no one these days has any patience or courtesy. And forget the arguments of "it helps to pass the time". Passing the time shouldn't be at the expense of insults to those who drive Scions. All I'm asking for is a shred of decency. If you Scion-haters think that's too much to ask, then I don't know if you should belong to any community, online or not.

And it's not just anti-Scion sentiment I'm seeing on these boards. It's stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that. People just need to stop. Yeah, you're awesome. You drive a fast, expensive, and/or unique car. You're great. I hope that one day I can be as cool as you. But until then, I'd like to enjoy my time reading about an interesting car without having to cringe whenever insults are hurled without thought. Brag all you want about yourselves, just for God's sake don't put others down. Please.

but you clearly are in love with your tc, or are so ashamed of it that you have to defend it otherwise you wouldnt be posting that. and since that is the case, perhaps YOU shouldnt be a part of a discussion since your opinion is fairly bias..

[Matador]

Originally Posted by ryun84

It's comments like these that show just the amount of self-importance some people have. Roll over and die? Really? Just because you have this notion that the Scion company seemed to "talk down" to you, you would go so far as to wish the people who buy those products to die? Metaphorically speaking or not, the problem is not the company. It's the ego. I swear, I'm so tired of this whining and all the "I'm a one-of-a-kind purist/enthusiast and I hate Scion" crying. It's like no one these days has any patience or courtesy. And forget the arguments of "it helps to pass the time". Passing the time shouldn't be at the expense of insults to those who drive Scions. All I'm asking for is a shred of decency. If you Scion-haters think that's too much to ask, then I don't know if you should belong to any community, online or not.

And it's not just anti-Scion sentiment I'm seeing on these boards. It's stupid Camry this, slow-ass Corolla that. People just need to stop. Yeah, you're awesome. You drive a fast, expensive, and/or unique car. You're great. I hope that one day I can be as cool as you. But until then, I'd like to enjoy my time reading about an interesting car without having to cringe whenever insults are hurled without thought. Brag all you want about yourselves, just for God's sake don't put others down. Please.

I don't hate scion. I think they serve.... scratched that, served their purpose in fact. I do however hate the execs in the US behind scion. They took what was something totally cool and sensible and basically backpedaled on everything they said they would do and flushed the brand down the toilet. I've argued with dimman about this before, and I told him that accounting makes bigger decisions than marketing. At the time, I disagreed with him, and while I do think the car in it's basic concept wont change being a scion (after all, they don't produce their own cars anyway), the decision BEHIND the move
is what bothers me, and dimman is right in that sense. Marketing would have taken presedence to engineering, and while that maybe ok as long as I can get the car that I want now, what does that say for the future of Toyota's sports cars? (Discount the fact that either way I think making it a scion is a stupid marketing decision).