Any pilots in the house?

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by austin_kw

I have been told by many that it's a long and tough road to get to where I want to be, but I know in the end that it's well worth it. It's always been a dream of mine that I will indeed pursue.

If it's your dream, then do it! It's a long road and some days are tough, but I love my job.

[Tcoat]

If you want to try to get into the Canadian military as a pilot go out and get an Engineering degree or some other applicable education before even trying or else they will laugh you out of the recruiting office.
Contrary to the advertising the available positions are extremely limited and the waiting list very, very, very long!

[53Driver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you want to try to get into the Canadian military as a pilot go out and get an Engineering degree or some other applicable education before even trying or else they will laugh you out of the recruiting office.
Contrary to the advertising the available positions are extremely limited and the waiting list very, very, very long!

This still makes me chuckle and fortunately an idea the U.S. Marines do not support. My degree? Political Science. Meanwhile, I watched people much "smarter" than me with all sorts of different engineering degrees either wash out of the program or Drop on Request (DOR). Desire, discipline, working hard and a willingness to learn is WAY more important than a degree. Heck, General Chuck Yeager was just a "good ol' country boy".

About the only place in aviation (as a pilot) where an engineering degree makes sense to be a requirement is that of a test pilot. This, of course, is only my opinion and probably doesn't count for much.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 53Driver

This still makes me chuckle and fortunately an idea the U.S. Marines do not support. My degree? Political Science. Meanwhile, I watched people much "smarter" than me with all sorts of different engineering degrees either wash out of the program or Drop on Request (DOR). Desire, discipline, working hard and a willingness to learn is WAY more important than a degree. Heck, General Chuck Yeager was just a "good ol' country boy".

About the only place in aviation (as a pilot) where an engineering degree makes sense to be a requirement is that of a test pilot. This, of course, is only my opinion and probably doesn't count for much.

It is not a "requirement" here and any degree will help but for decades now, to get any position in the Canadian Forces, you stand a better chance with a degree. When I say any position I truly mean any! Right down to your basic infantry grunt a minimum of some community college will help bump you up the list (not necessarily get you in right away but just move you up the waiting list). The higher the position the more applicable the degree should be. I doubt that a Political Science degree would help much here if trying for any form of "technical" trade up too and including pilots and aircrew. It is important to keep in mind that you could have more pilots, aircrew and techs in one carrier task force then we have in our entire military. I can not stress enough how radically different our two countries are in their approach to military staffing.
Now, I could be way off base as I haven't sat in the Recruiting Officer position for about 15 years but it has been that way since the early 80s and I doubt it has changed much.

[53Driver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is not a "requirement" here and any degree will help but for decades now, to get any position in the Canadian Forces, you stand a better chance with a degree. When I say any position I truly mean any! Right down to your basic infantry grunt a minimum of some community college will help bump you up the list (not necessarily get you in right away but just move you up the waiting list). The higher the position the more applicable the degree should be. I doubt that a Political Science degree would help much here if trying for any form of "technical" trade up too and including pilots and aircrew. It is important to keep in mind that you could have more pilots, aircrew and techs in one carrier task force then we have in our entire military. I can not stress enough how radically different our two countries are in their approach to military staffing.
Now, I could be way off base as I haven't sat in the Recruiting Officer position for about 15 years but it has been that way since the early 80s and I doubt it has changed much.

I think you missed the point I was making. It wasn't the degree, it was the degree type I was referencing. In other words, this silly idea that in order to be a pilot you need to have an engineering degree. That's pure BS and is intellectual laziness on the part of any organization that uses such nonsense to fill its pilot ranks. It also breeds "elitism" within the field. As I mentioned, the only time it makes sense for a pilot to need an engineering degree is when one becomes a test pilot. The reason for that is not that you are any smarter or more qualified but because test pilots deal with engineers on a daily basis as part of their job and need to be able to "talk the talk". In layman's terms, they need to be able to socially interact with the engineers while having a complete understanding of the subjects they are dealing with. It also helps the pilot understand the purpose of the various tests that he/she will be putting the aircraft through.

To be a great line pilot though, you don't need an engineering degree. Many of the "best" fighter pilots the world has ever seen were not engineers ala Chuck Yeager. Read his autobiography, he talks about this in some detail.

I had a Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) try to pull this crap with me. Fortunately, I was knowledgeable on the Marines policy in regards to flight applicants. There was no requirement for pilot applicants to possess any type of engineering degree. The requirements were 1) have a bachelor's degree from an accredited college/university, 2) pass the flight physical, 3) pass the aviation test, 4) pass the psych test (part of the aviation test) and 5) have a clean background check. As you can guess, I found a different OSO in a different district.

Sadly, other branches in the U.S. Armed Forces (I'm looking at you Air Force) feel that this is a necessity for all pilots. It's also why one of my best friends graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy and did an inter-service transfer to the Marines (because they wouldn't give him a pilot slot since he wasn't an engineer).

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 53Driver

I think you missed the point I was making. It wasn't the degree, it was the degree type I was referencing. In other words, this silly idea that in order to be a pilot you need to have an engineering degree. That's pure BS and is intellectual laziness on the part of any organization that uses such nonsense to fill its pilot ranks. It also breeds "elitism" within the field. As I mentioned, the only time it makes sense for a pilot to need an engineering degree is when one becomes a test pilot. The reason for that is not that you are any smarter or more qualified but because test pilots deal with engineers on a daily basis as part of their job and need to be able to "talk the talk". In layman's terms, they need to be able to socially interact with the engineers while having a complete understanding of the subjects they are dealing with. It also helps the pilot understand the purpose of the various tests that he/she will be putting the aircraft through.

To be a great line pilot though, you don't need an engineering degree. Many of the "best" fighter pilots the world has ever seen were not engineers ala Chuck Yeager. Read his autobiography, he talks about this in some detail.

I had a Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) try to pull this crap with me. Fortunately, I was knowledgeable on the Marines policy in regards to flight applicants. There was no requirement for pilot applicants to possess any type of engineering degree. The requirements were 1) have a bachelor's degree from an accredited college/university, 2) pass the flight physical, 3) pass the aviation test, 4) pass the psych test (part of the aviation test) and 5) have a clean background check. As you can guess, I found a different OSO in a different district.

Sadly, other branches in the U.S. Armed Forces (I'm looking at you Air Force) feel that this is a necessity for all pilots. It's also why one of my best friends graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy and did an inter-service transfer to the Marines (because they wouldn't give him a pilot slot since he wasn't an engineer).

I got your point and totally agree with all of your statements.

[The_Understated]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is not a "requirement" here and any degree will help but for decades now, to get any position in the Canadian Forces, you stand a better chance with a degree. When I say any position I truly mean any! Right down to your basic infantry grunt a minimum of some community college will help bump you up the list (not necessarily get you in right away but just move you up the waiting list). The higher the position the more applicable the degree should be. I doubt that a Political Science degree would help much here if trying for any form of "technical" trade up too and including pilots and aircrew. It is important to keep in mind that you could have more pilots, aircrew and techs in one carrier task force then we have in our entire military. I can not stress enough how radically different our two countries are in their approach to military staffing.
Now, I could be way off base as I haven't sat in the Recruiting Officer position for about 15 years but it has been that way since the early 80s and I doubt it has changed much.

I'm going to weigh in here just to validate some info. To enter into the DEO program (direct entry officer) yes you will need a degree from a university or college for the Canadian forces however they "generally" don't care what that is. Granted your chances of getting through training with a degree in basket weaving will be lower. There are two other options for entering as a pilot where you don't need a degree:

ROTP: regular officer training program, where you go to a military college (4years) and complete your trade training (3 more years).

CEOTP: pretty much the same thing but a specialized program to accelerate the process to 4 years total (degree and trade training).

I've worked in the recruiting centre for a short time and the degree will check off a box to say you've got it and your interview with the counsellor will decide if it's applicable to your trade choice. So for us Canadians at least there a few options if you want to fly in the forces, and previous flying can be anything from zero to full commercial, they'll take everything into consideration as you go through the process.

More to the OPs point, I did a ground school course simply because I wanted to have more background info before joining my program in the Forces (no flight experience). Even that though made me realize just how much (a ludicrous amount) I'd have to pay to get my licenses privately. Keep that in mind when you decide how you want to be able to fly. It's very expensive if not covered by programs, scholarships, etc. If the passion is real enough, just make sure you budget well enough so you don't get screwed halfway through.


Sent from my iPhone 6+

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by The_Understated

I'm going to weigh in here just to validate some info. To enter into the DEO program (direct entry officer) yes you will need a degree from a university or college for the Canadian forces however they "generally" don't care what that is. Granted your chances of getting through training with a degree in basket weaving will be lower. There are two other options for entering as a pilot where you don't need a degree:

ROTP: regular officer training program, where you go to a military college (4years) and complete your trade training (3 more years).

CEOTP: pretty much the same thing but a specialized program to accelerate the process to 4 years total (degree and trade training).

I've worked in the recruiting centre for a short time and the degree will check off a box to say you've got it and your interview with the counsellor will decide if it's applicable to your trade choice. So for us Canadians at least there a few options if you want to fly in the forces, and previous flying can be anything from zero to full commercial, they'll take everything into consideration as you go through the process.

More to the OPs point, I did a ground school course simply because I wanted to have more background info before joining my program in the Forces (no flight experience). Even that though made me realize just how much (a ludicrous amount) I'd have to pay to get my licenses privately. Keep that in mind when you decide how you want to be able to fly. It's very expensive if not covered by programs, scholarships, etc. If the passion is real enough, just make sure you budget well enough so you don't get screwed halfway through.


Sent from my iPhone 6+

Were you a Pilot? And if so where and when? We may have met.

[Guillaume]

Private pilot here! I used to fly gliders as a teen and now I am flying with a

most of the time.

[The_Understated]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Were you a Pilot? And if so where and when? We may have met.

Not fully trained yet. Going onto my Primary Flight Training next week. Just worked at the recruiting centre for a bit when I first joined so figured I'd share what info I knew. :P

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by The_Understated

Not fully trained yet. Going onto my Primary Flight Training next week. Just worked at the recruiting centre for a bit when I first joined so figured I'd share what info I knew. :P

Good work! It is a very difficult program to get into. I worked the center for a while when I was Navy Reserve back in the 90s and it sounds like things have not changed much.
I spent several years as an Army driver fueling aircraft back in the 70s so met a bunch of pilots and aircrew from all around the world.

[The_Understated]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Good work! It is a very difficult program to get into. I worked the center for a while when I was Navy Reserve back in the 90s and it sounds like things have not changed much.
I spent several years as an Army driver fueling aircraft back in the 70s so met a bunch of pilots and aircrew from all around the world.

That's pretty awesome! Glad to see such a diverse community around here :P

[Frogamazog]

I've been doing it for a living the last 14years and absolutely love it. It is a tough road that doesn't always pay well, but sure is worth it. As with 53Driver, I fly the type that takes as bit more skill to keep in the air .