Quick mini-rant on the FRS and what we use it for

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by jvincent

No disagreements.

BTW, that's a lot of tape. How long does it take you to put that on?

[DarkSunrise]

It's just the current state of car enthusiasts. It's all about highway pulls and stoplight-to-stoplight street "racing". Truth is, very few enthusiasts actually track their cars or seek out backroads.

Handling only matters to the extent you can brag about some lateral g number on paper. And balance and feedback are irrelevant - no numbers to brag about there.

The FR-S/GT86/BRZ weren't really intended to cater to those folks, so it'll be hard to explain the appeal. So it's a good thing you don't have to. Enjoy your car!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

It's just the current state of car enthusiasts. It's all about highway pulls and stoplight-to-stoplight street "racing". Truth is, very few enthusiasts actually track their cars or seek out backroads.

Handling only matters to the extent you can brag about some lateral g number on paper. And balance and feedback are irrelevant - no numbers to brag about there.

The FR-S/GT86/BRZ weren't really intended to cater to those folks, so it'll be hard to explain the appeal. So it's a good thing you don't have to. Enjoy your car!

I am one of those that will likely never track but still like the car for the abilities it has, even on my day to day commute. Just the fact that I know I can whip it around to avoid hazards and that it will do exactly what I want, when I want, gives me some peace of mind.

I have only had a couple of people ever say it was underpowered when I told the HP and since they nodded knowingly when I said "but it is rear wheel drive" (as if that fact made it faster somehow) then I was well aware they didn't know shit about cars anyway.

The couple of guys at work that kept razzing me that it was "slow" changed their tune dramatically after I took them on a short ride on some secluded back roads. Pretty sure they both had to change their underwear after the first couple of turns.

[reni]

If you're going to use the SR20 for comparison at least use the most recent one (which is still 15 years old at this point). The S15 Silvia had 250hp and cost about the same as an FR-S. There was even a non-turbo version had about the same 200hp as the FR-S, again 15 years ago.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am one of those that will likely never track but still like the car for the abilities it has, even on my day to day commute. Just the fact that I know I can whip it around to avoid hazards and that it will do exactly what I want, when I want, gives me some peace of mind.

That's one thing that surprised me too. I actually prefer driving my FR-S (vs. my GTI) on my daily commute through traffic because it's like an extension of me. I thought I'd prefer the GTI because it's more plush, but the FR-S feels so light and agile cutting through traffic, and gives a ton of feedback. It's one of those cars you just drive and think yeah, this is right.

[Karnzklutch]

Compared to a lot of the newer cars out there 200hp isn't all that much, but it works for me and my skill level.

All my track friends are comfortable with the lower power levels, but all the stance and drift guys will never let my "rwd prius" live without making fun of it.

[mackdaddytran]

Originally Posted by Str8Ghostin

I've been getting a lot of questions (the same ones I'm sure most of you have gotten), which can all really be summed up with "Why the FRS/BRZ?". All of my enthusiast friends and even non-enthusiasts always ask me the same thing - why I didn't buy a WRX/EVO/RHD TT RX-7 or some car of that sort and chose the 200hp 'underpowered' car that I did.

Now I was under the impression that this car was made to be an AFFORDABLE car that can be used for everyday driving, while still being able to drive it to the track - have loads of fun - then drive home safely. This is exactly what I use it for and this thing does it perfectly.

I'd argue the WRX and Evo could get you home safely too and would probably be more fun. I would also say the WRX is a better daily driver as well (just not as fuel efficient). But the additional space makes up for it IMO.

[Hydaral]

I don't get asked these questions because I don't encounter a whole lot of "car people", but since you asked.

The base WRX is 30% more than the base GT86 (Evo might be around the same as the WRX, I can't be bothered checking), and I got the base 86 because the more expensive model didn't have anything I wanted. It was basically heavier, for more money.

IMO the WRX is damn ugly, seems to be getting more so every year. Ditto for the Evo. Too many electronics too, I wanted a "driver's car".

I dislike turbos too, I think of it as cheating, The engineering effort that went into the engine appealed to me. Although I hear the new WRX has a turboed FA20?

And the Cayman isn't even an option in Australia, way too expensive.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mackdaddytran

I'd argue the WRX and Evo could get you home safely too and would probably be more fun. I would also say the WRX is a better daily driver as well (just not as fuel efficient). But the additional space makes up for it IMO.

For me: Don't need space. Do need mileage. Do need reduced upkeep/repair costs (chew through warranty in about 1.5 years)
FRS $30K, WRX $44K, Evo $42K (Canadian prices)

[raul]

Originally Posted by Ponwh

Dude. It's 2015. Not 1990s.

The human ability to control speed is the same today as it was in the 90s. So that point falls flat on the floor.

[Ponwh]

Originally Posted by raul

The human ability to control speed is the same today as it was in the 90s. So that point falls flat on the floor.

LOL.

[EAGLE5]

I specifically bought the car to use on the street and track while still having enough backseat to transport my kids.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by reni

If you're going to use the SR20 for comparison at least use the most recent one (which is still 15 years old at this point). The S15 Silvia had 250hp and cost about the same as an FR-S. There was even a non-turbo version had about the same 200hp as the FR-S, again 15 years ago.

True, but let's compare some basics (efficiency and technological improvements aside):

S13 vs S15 SR: higher boost, better turbo, larger injectors, different factory ECU tune. Same internals for all practical purposes
S15 SR (Autech differences vs turbo): no turbo, smaller injectors, higher compression engine, better NA cams, different factory ECU tune, same internals for all practical purposes aside from compression/cam difference. Better header than the standard RWD S15 SR20DE version.

A closer engine to compare would be the P11 SR20VE, with a factory 10.4:1 compression ratio and making ~187 crank HP. P12 SR20VE had 11:1 compression ratio and makes ~205 crank HP.

The P11 SR20VE that I had in my G20 made almost 190FWHP with stock internals, Fujitsubo header, JWT ECU tune, intake, intake plenum spacer. The FA20 is similar in many respects, simple I/H/E mods + tune can get decent power to the wheels.

-alex

[Tenament05]

Originally Posted by Hydaral

I don't get asked these questions because I don't encounter a whole lot of "car people", but since you asked.

The base WRX is 30% more than the base GT86 (Evo might be around the same as the WRX, I can't be bothered checking), and I got the base 86 because the more expensive model didn't have anything I wanted. It was basically heavier, for more money.

IMO the WRX is damn ugly, seems to be getting more so every year. Ditto for the Evo. Too many electronics too, I wanted a "driver's car".

I dislike turbos too, I think of it as cheating, The engineering effort that went into the engine appealed to me. Although I hear the new WRX has a turboed FA20?

And the Cayman isn't even an option in Australia, way too expensive.

damn.. I agreed with you up until the "turbo is cheating" argument..

If forced induction is cheating, then do you not agree we shouldnt have fuel injection and go back to manual carbs? The carb camp may think that fuel injection is cheating as per your same argument. Do you think our ECUs are cheating because there are no requirement for electronics for a combustion engine to work?

See where I'm goin with it?

No offense but it seems you need to learn a bit more about what you're comparing. The WRX fa20 is the DIT version. yaaaawn. Fixed the racelands issue, but still boring. An EVO is definitely in the STI segment, price and performance wise. I own a bugeye wrx and have owned a hawkeye.. they are simply not the car a lot of people envision them to be. Very tempermental pieces of poop that are great most of the time.... but there is no "most of the time" when it comes to high performance