Learning about cars.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Tenament05

Buying a junker to work on/learn to drive stick.. I never saw the logic in that unless the person really likes the junker and has a pocketbook to pay for the restorations... which are not cheap unless one has a badass junkyard/connection to NOS/OEM/aftermarket stuff.

You learn to be resourceful and do your own repairs. Still cheaper than buying a brand new FR-S/BRZ. Not nearly as reliable, comfortable, powerful, perhaps, but you learn a lot.

[Tenament05]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

You learn to be resourceful and do your own repairs. Still cheaper than buying a brand new FR-S/BRZ. Not nearly as reliable, comfortable, powerful, perhaps, but you learn a lot.

Never argued that it was cheaper.. but the cost associated with what benefit? Learning to wrench? One could learn to be resourceful and do their own repairs no matter what platform they choose.

If that was the case, then I would underline the importance of making friends and helping them with their projects rather than buy a beater for the sake of education and experience. Even in this day and age, restorations are pricey, especially so for anything worth a damn. Yea, it's cool to say you built up your MR2, miata, or whatnot, but all that time and energy could be focused into other things unless one REALLY likes the beater to begin with.

We don't have much time on this Earth.. often times our interactions with each other teach us far more than reading a book on the subject or going at it alone

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tenament05

We don't have much time on this Earth.. often times our interactions with each other teach us far more than reading a book on the subject or going at it alone

BIG ups.

[tahdizzle]

The answer to the question: Why does tahdizzle hump women's legs at cocktail parties?

Originally Posted by Tenament05

We don't have much time on this Earth.. often times our interactions with each other teach us far more than reading a book on the subject or going at it alone

[bcj]

Because one leg is both the same.

sorry, Firesign.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Tenament05

Never argued that it was cheaper.. but the cost associated with what benefit? Learning to wrench? One could learn to be resourceful and do their own repairs no matter what platform they choose.

If OP makes a mistake while he's learning it could be a lot more costly mistake in a new car than a used. Not to mention older cars are (generally) significantly less complex. If I tried doing something myself on my inexpensive car and something went wrong it was just another challenge to overcome. If I did something on the BRZ and there was a problem it sent me into a panic because it's a heluva lot more expensive repairing and replacing new car parts than sourcing parts for a 20yr-old car in a junkyard or the forums. Case in point: I did some work on my interior and left a wire loose that set my airbag light off, just a month before my state inspection was due. Now I had a close friend who was a Subaru tech diagnose and fix it for the cost of a sandwich and soda, but not everyone is so fortunate. If it had to go to the dealer they could charge hours of diag and it would not be covered under warranty.

Originally Posted by Tenament05

If that was the case, then I would underline the importance of making friends and helping them with their projects rather than buy a beater for the sake of education and experience. Even in this day and age, restorations are pricey, especially so for anything worth a damn. Yea, it's cool to say you built up your MR2, miata, or whatnot, but all that time and energy could be focused into other things unless one REALLY likes the beater to begin with.

Of course friends can help and he can and should help friends with their projects. Also, did you miss the part where I said "However if this is more of a minor hobby for you (nothing wrong with that!) the BRZ will be a nice car to satisfy the occasional driving event or wrench session." And who said he had to restore any car? You can buy a nice sorted Miata for two to five grand these days. Then if he breaks something or stuffs it into a wall he'll be out a lot less than if he bought a brand new car (insurance would give him used car retail value on his car that he just paid a new car price for). And if he gets bored or decides it's not for him he can sell it and get most of his money back.

Originally Posted by Tenament05

We don't have much time on this Earth.. often times our interactions with each other teach us far more than reading a book on the subject or going at it alone

Yeah, don't read or try anything on your own. You might hurt yourself. Or worse, you might actually learn something and then others would constantly ask you for your expertise.

In closing, at least consider buying a Miata (or other comparable cheap sports car). Or don't. The choice is entirely up to you. I have friends whose BRZ/FR-S's are their first tuner cars and they've done well modifying/driving them, and I have friends who have riced them out and/or crashed them. We can't just assume that you're going to do the latter.

http://jalopnik.com/5654312/miata-th...every-question

[Tenament05]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

1. Yeah, don't read or try anything on your own. You might hurt yourself. Or worse, you might actually learn something and then others would constantly ask you for your expertise.


2. And if he gets bored or decides it's not for him he can sell it and get most of his money back.

1. What's up with the passive aggressive (dig at me)? I've learned much in my life alone. However I've learned MUCH more with other people. In fact, we're on this forum, this community, because our synergy as a WHOLE outweighs our individual knowledge and skills. My mantra is "learning over knowing". I wasn't saying that one shouldn't ever do something themselves. But imagine how far backwards we would be as a society if everyone had to re-learn and re-read, and re-understand how EVERYTHING in their lives worked?

2. You focus on money, I focus on time. Time is worth FAR more than money. If his time is well spent fixing up his beater, sure, great. There is one thing you cannot, flat out, get back at the end of the day, and that is time.

We don't have much of that on this Earth. Refer:

[ame]http://youtu.be/BOksW_NabEk[/ame]




On a tangential note, one of the single most important perspectives for an entrepreneur is to 'accept what you do not know- do not try and understand.. just accept. And then find someone or some organization to fill the void in your understanding so that you can focus on what YOU are most happy/best at doing"


While these cars are "significantly more complex" these days, the 86 platform in general is very thoughtfully laid out and, while electronics have came a long way, a combustion engine's conceptual operation carries over through different platforms. It's an NA motor with Port and DI. Not complicated.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Tenament05

1. What's up with the passive aggressive (dig at me)?

Sorry, I play an a**hole on the internet. No hard feelings. You have valid points, too.

[Tenament05]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Sorry, I play an a**hole on the internet. No hard feelings. You have valid points, too.

Shit, we're in good company then

[Nessal]

It started when I was younger helping my dad out when he worked on his cars. This was in a time when most men still did manly things like work on their own cars. I always had an interests in cars growing up. Started modding my own car which was a 1988 Civic DX in high school(LOL) and it pretty much started from there. I would save all of my money to buy tools and mods. I always had a pretty mechanical mind as a child so working on a car wasn't that difficult. I can look at how certain things are built and deconstruct it and rebuild it without much trouble. Once in a while, I would refer to a manual for things like valve lash or torque specs. But I think a good way to start is to just get familiar with the parts of a car first. Then understand how they work together. That will give you a general understanding of how a car is put together. Look for directions online if you don't know something or ask on the forum. Don't go He-Man into something if you aren't sure. Always ask for directions or follow a manual.

Also, maybe I'm just old school...but I'm not a fan of digital service manuals. I much prefer the paperback. I find it much more useful keep things organized because I can place tabs on the pages and write in my own notes. Just a FYI.

Oh, I also forgot. Get some good tools. I started off using craftsman tools but my understanding is that they are all made in China now. Try to look for a good USA made set. The craftsman 250 piece set is a good set for starters. It provides you with about 70% of what you need for a backyard mechanic.

[BlackMonarch]

Learn about cars, you say? Buy a 400$ Honda Civic. Rip it apart in it's entirety, use the internet\forums\books\local mechanics to figure out what's what.

Put it back together again, and make sure it runs.