Peyton Manning in the playoffs.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

Hmmm. Interesting debate with Russell. I don't think he'll be nearly as effective without that incredible defense and the star of the offense: marshawn lynch.

This.

Unless you're Tom Brady, most QBs require a talented back alongside them to be successful and perform at elite levels.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

Agreed that he is not at the same level of Tom Brady (extremely hard to say for a dolphin fan), but he is without a doubt one if the best nfl players any of us will see in our lifetimes.

Don't get too caught up with the thought of your quarterback being the most important piece of your team. Tremendous defense with average qbs can still win championships. Unless Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, Joe flacco, and Brad Johnson are elite quarterbacks in your book.

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No they're not elite. Still winning it all was, in the long run more much more important for their teams and legacy than any of their individual stats. That's why you remember their names, and that's also why Manning's stats will only matter in discussions about stats.

Manning had the team(s), the defense, the support, and most importantly calls all the plays. How many straight up bad throws did he have yesterday? That's why he especially owns his team's defeats. I like the guy, but he'll never be top 5, unless he somehow has an Elway-esque resurgence next season.

Watch out for Wilson though. At this point he's looking like a 21st century Steve Young (who to be fair, also had a ton of great players and defense around him). Still, Young had to make the passes and rushes (43 rushing TDs OMG) against Championship caliber defenses. Most importantly Young kept his head together in big games. Wilson seems to do the same. Manning, not so much.

[Tcoat]

What hockey team does this Peyton guy play for anyway?

[cdrazic93]

Surprised there isnt a football thread already.




Go hawks.

[UtahSleeper]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

Hmmm. Interesting debate with Russell. I don't think he'll be nearly as effective without that incredible defense and the star of the offense: marshawn lynch.

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I agree Lynch is great, but they also have Turbin and the FB who are capable RB's also. Guess its a wait and see thing, cause Lynch showed in Buffalo that its hard to be a good running back when the other team doesn't have to respect your passing game.

[rice_classic]

I was talking with a co-worker about how many great players on the SeaHawks roster and we concluded that there aren't many.. but how can that be? The idea is that the Hawks have 2 things. They have a lot of really good players and then they have a few players on both sides that have a special ability: Making others better. The result is that they play beyond their normal selves.

Russell, Lynch, Sherman and Chancellor along with Coach Carroll are Catalysts.

Pippen was a better basketball player because of Jordan just like Stockton/Malone were better together than separately. Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman do this on defense and Russell and Lynch do this on offense. The other players play above their normal level because these other guys bring out something more. They act as a catalyst that allows a player to see he can be better than what he currently is. When you see Turbin run the ball, doesn't he look a lot like Lynch? Yes! Did you see Chancellor's Pick-6 on Newton? That looked a whole lot like a Sherman maneuver. When you see the best of one player show up in other players performance, it's very encouraging as a fan. Part of the catalyst is the ability to have fun. You know rest of the defense is inspired when Chancellor jumps over the offensive line to block a field goal not once but twice.

Second is: Selflessness. When the players are genuinely psyched when another player makes a big play or scores points that's a very good sign but the key is the creation of a cohesive group: The Legion of Boom. Ever since the 1985 Bears it's always stuck with me the concept of unified defense, a cohesive group and the underlying principle that the leagues best defense usually beats the leagues best offense. Last year's superbowl proved that. The 1985 Bears proved that. If we're lucky enough to see the Seahawks in the Superbowl, this theory will be tested once again.

The 3 best offenses in the league: Colts, Packers and Patriots. The Seahawks face the Packers this Sunday with arguably the #1 offense in the league right now.

This has been a damn fine year for NFL football.

GO HAWKS.

[MidnightRunner]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

I agree Lynch is great, but they also have Turbin and the FB who are capable RB's also. Guess its a wait and see thing, cause Lynch showed in Buffalo that its hard to be a good running back when the other team doesn't have to respect your passing game.

True, then again look at the numbers that Adrian Peterson used to put out... with a crew of bozos for his quarterbacks. And also with arguably the greatest football player to ever lay hands on a football; Barry Sanders. He did AMAZING things with his gang of misfit quarterbacks.

I guess I'm not fully convinced on a QB that only has 5 games in his CAREER with over 300 yards.

[UtahSleeper]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

True, then again look at the numbers that Adrian Peterson used to put out... with a crew of bozos for his quarterbacks. And also with arguably the greatest football player to ever lay hands on a football; Barry Sanders. He did AMAZING things with his gang of misfit quarterbacks.

I guess I'm not fully convinced on a QB that only has 5 games in his CAREER with over 300 yards.

I can understand that. My thing is, he doesn't seem like a big numbers type of player. He seems more consistent and he keeps defenses on their toes. He ran for 849 yards this year!!! Makes it hard for a defense to play pass with that type of scare. Plus, throwing for over 3k every year with over a 95 QB rating all 3 years is something other teams wish for(like my poor Panthers).

Also, Adrian and Barry far exceed what most RB's were able to do. I love Lynch, but I can't compare him to them.

[MidnightRunner]

Originally Posted by UtahSleeper

I can understand that. My thing is, he doesn't seem like a big numbers type of player. He seems more consistent and he keeps defenses on their toes. He ran for 849 yards this year!!! Makes it hard for a defense to play pass with that type of scare. Plus, throwing for over 3k every year with over a 95 QB rating all 3 years is something other teams wish for(like my poor Panthers).

Also, Adrian and Barry far exceed what most RB's were able to do. I love Lynch, but I can't compare him to them.

True true. Only time will tell, but either way I'm happy for Russell as far as he's come so far. He seems like a classy player.

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[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by MidnightRunner

True true. Only time will tell, but either way I'm happy for Russell as far as he's come so far. He seems like a classy player.

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Both his demeanor and personality kind of remind me of the NFL equivalent of Tim Duncan. He is a fierce competitor that leaves it all on the field at the end of the day. Not nearly as arrogant as other personalities on the Seahawks.

[rice_classic]

I like the arrogance, even though it's fake. Yup, you heard it here first folks. The arrogance is often fake.

Sherman for example likes to talk, but much of it is deliberate and methodical, like playing a character to grow his audience and secure his very lucrative contracts, which he did. The controversy, was planned.

Secondly, most of the players are 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks.. passovers. Some are players other teams couldn't wait to get rid of and some are walk-ons. Other than Sherman's deliberate character antics and Baldwins chip on his shoulder when Dion Sanders referred to them as "mediocre", I don't see too many big egos.. Not like I see on other teams at least.

I do agree with the Tim Duncan comparison. .


Edit: they did have 1 big ego on the team, an arrogant ****. They traded him. Percy Harvin=unnecessary.

[MidnightRunner]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Edit: they did have 1 big ego on the team, an arrogant ****. They traded him. Percy Harvin=unnecessary.

I was surprised when they let him go. They gave up a first round (I believe) to get him and then gave him a huge contract. Turns out they really didn't need him. Thank the coaching staff for creating a SYSTEM that works.

And speaking of systems, look over at the patriots. The way they've done so much with such little resources is truly amazing.

Shaping up to be a phenomenal super bowl.



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[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I was talking with a co-worker about how many great players on the SeaHawks roster and we concluded that there aren't many.. but how can that be? The idea is that the Hawks have 2 things. They have a lot of really good players and then they have a few players on both sides that have a special ability: Making others better. The result is that they play beyond their normal selves.

Russell, Lynch, Sherman and Chancellor along with Coach Carroll are Catalysts.

Pippen was a better basketball player because of Jordan just like Stockton/Malone were better together than separately. Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman do this on defense and Russell and Lynch do this on offense. The other players play above their normal level because these other guys bring out something more. They act as a catalyst that allows a player to see he can be better than what he currently is. When you see Turbin run the ball, doesn't he look a lot like Lynch? Yes! Did you see Chancellor's Pick-6 on Newton? That looked a whole lot like a Sherman maneuver. When you see the best of one player show up in other players performance, it's very encouraging as a fan. Part of the catalyst is the ability to have fun. You know rest of the defense is inspired when Chancellor jumps over the offensive line to block a field goal not once but twice.

Second is: Selflessness. When the players are genuinely psyched when another player makes a big play or scores points that's a very good sign but the key is the creation of a cohesive group: The Legion of Boom. Ever since the 1985 Bears it's always stuck with me the concept of unified defense, a cohesive group and the underlying principle that the leagues best defense usually beats the leagues best offense. Last year's superbowl proved that. The 1985 Bears proved that. If we're lucky enough to see the Seahawks in the Superbowl, this theory will be tested once again.

The 3 best offenses in the league: Colts, Packers and Patriots. The Seahawks face the Packers this Sunday with arguably the #1 offense in the league right now.

This has been a damn fine year for NFL football.

GO HAWKS.

agree with all of this but wanted to add that you forgot two very important people that make this defense great and arguable play a bigger role than sherm and bambam (but really all 4 make the rest of the defense great). Bobby Wagner, and most importantly,

Earl Thomas

[rice_classic]

Bam Bam and Thomas were covered in the 2nd point as being part of the LoB. But yup.. Bobby Wagner is also a crucial player. All this is from a fan perspective so it's all taken with a grain of salt but I don't think Thomas or Wagner are "developers of others" the same way Kam, Sherm, Russ and of course the Coach are. Once again.. all conjecture but that's why it fun to talk sports.

Defending fair weather:

I want to rant about another topic first though. First and foremost I want to offer a big FU to every fan that hates another team's fan because that other team wins a lot. I didn't like it when the Bulls beat my Jazz over and over in the finals in the 90's. I don't ever like seeing the Cowboys, Steelers or Patriots win... But never do I hate their fans for being fans of them. That's stupid. It's just sports.

But back to fair weather. We should be fair weather fans to a degree. Professional sports is a business and they are selling a product. If the customer keeps showing up and spending very hard earned money on the product when the product is lousy they are being rather un-American if you ask me and very un-free-market. Nothing breeds success like success. I'm not saying stop rooting for your team in years of struggle, I'm saying there's nothing wrong with waning enthusiasm in those years and nothing wrong with a much lower level of enthusiasm to spend money supporting them. Nothing sells tickets (or jerseys, shoes, shirts. blah blah blah) like success and failure should have the corresponding effect. I'm a fan of Honda, but I'm not an idiot.. When they stopped making a product I was enthusiastic about I stopped giving them my money. There is zero shame in that. It's a business.

Defending the purchase of a 12th Fan Jersey

Love the players because their on the team you love rings true for many.. Makes sense, unless you bought a Harvin jersey early last year. It sucks buying a jersey for a player you like only to watch them end up on another team the next year (or they punch other players you like in the face, or refuse to go back in a game). I type this as I'm looking at my Hasselbeck jersey I bought the year before he left. Free Agency =/= loyalty. Why should I be loyal if the players aren't? Why should I have bought a Golden Tate jersey? He got a super bowl ring with a great team and ditched them for a few more bucks elsewhere. The thing is, with a 12th Fan jersey, at least it will mean something for years to come, the 12th man isn't getting traded away anytime soon. So I have a Sherman Jersey but I'll be a fan of Sherm no matter where he goes but that sentiment isn't the same for everyone and that's where the 12th Fan jersey suitably fills that void.

The stadium was purposely designed to incorporate the crowd, direct sound and make the fans a part of the game. Paul Allen made that a design criteria of CenturyLink Field. You have to love an owner and a team that spends mega dollars to make the fans a contributing part of the game when playing at home.

Defending the fans that left the stadium

They weren't losing faith.. they weren't abandoning their team.. they were experiencing pain, mental anguish. It's akin to watching someone you love suffer and not everyone's tolerance for that is the same. It's a side effect of being very emotionally invested. Ever heard someone say, "Turn it off, it's too hard to watch".. It's like that, just in person. As for lack of faith.. BALONEY! That game was OVER! What's the statistical likelihood that comeback was going to happen? Probably on par with winning a lottery and that's what made it so damn awesome! Let's consider:

-Punter throwing a TD pass!
-2 point conversion that just about didn't happen.
-Recovering onside kick because a player who was suppose to block decided randomly to try and be a hero...
-Long pass to Baldwin on 3rd and long
-Throwing a long TD pass to a player that dropped 4 in that same game.

I don't blame them for leaving, but they learned a lesson.

Another thing too; people who at the game because it "seemed fun". Lots of people get tickets from work or clients or there entertaining clients. Some folks make so much damn money that they can buy $300 without caring of the cost so going to the game is a casual experience, not a big deal. If tickets could only be sold to die-hard dedicated fans, only the folks that couldn't withstand the emotional torment from an impending loss would have left. Have YOU ever been to sporting event that you weren't emotionally vested in, got free tickets or were taken by someone? I have, a lot of them. I've probably left in the 7th or 8th inning of more Mariners games than I've stay for to the 9th. The tickets were free so...