Learning about cars.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Koa

One time had to drill into the unibody to get at a welded nut that they conveniently used for one of the two leaf spring bolts.

LOL. I'm getting ready to lift mine, and I'm already preparing myself mentally for those broken bolts.

To keep this on topic, what we're talking about is unexpected problems. Expect them. Even in something as simple as a brake job. If it goes just like it's supposed to, great. But it rarely goes just like it's supposed to. When bolts break or calipers jam or whatever else can go wrong does, that's when you really learn something.

[Ganthrithor]

One thing that's nice about cars vs PCs: small changes can make a big difference in how the car drives. Things like replacement plastic bushings (or replacing a bushing with a different kind of joint) or a lightweight flywheel can completely change the way a car feels.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

One thing that's nice about cars vs PCs: small changes can make a big difference in how the car drives. Things like replacement plastic bushings (or replacing a bushing with a different kind of joint) or a lightweight flywheel can completely change the way a car feels.

so what's the difference when upgrading PCs?

[86SPEED]

Hello, i see your from Las Vegas.. we are to, Ive been a ASE tech for many many years, starting in high school at learning mechanics, from small engine repair to auto repair and the UTI in Houston, learning Auto and diesel, and HVAC.. great cert to have as everyone in the world wants their AC and Heater to work. anyways that started all in 1993, i learned with my father and grandfather working on old carb. cars, classic cars, like Nova's Mustangs, Vettes, Bel Airs, and the type. Anyway i learned the same way alot of people do. By just doing it, remove a bolt, nut, clip or whatever, replace what you want then install the bolt, nut, clip or what ever in the same place. If you can read and have a decent set of tools then you can do just about anything yourself. Some of the engines ive rebuilt ive never worked with before, i just grabbed the book on it and followed step by step. there are service manuals out for just about every vehicle if you search properly. including our cars which the BRZ service manual posted on this forum.

Otherwise stop by the shop here in vegas and introduce yourself, i can help you with a brake job if you want, i have all the proper tools here, after hours we can sit down and walk you through step by step on what does what and how to properly do the job.

-Thomas

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by Koa

so what's the difference when upgrading PCs?

In PC-land you usually upgrade for pure performance reasons. Just like modding a car for increased horsepower, squeezing more performance out of a PC is usually very expensive: either you go apeshit on the hardware you already have to squeeze another ~20-30% out of it (in which case you need to spend a bunch of money on things like a high-quality power supply, overclocking-oriented motherboard, and semi-exotic cooling-- just like doing a big turbo build on a car), or you bin the existing stuff and just swap to a different platform that will give you a lot more performance without resorting to any kind of manic craziness (in which case you spend a bunch of money on the new silicon).

In car-land you can dislike the way your car balances in a corner, and spend ~7% of the value of your car on a swaybar swap and boom, suddenly your face is covered in a giant smile. To do something like that in the PC world you'd have to be able to double your framerate in a game by adding some three-dollar, stick-on heatsinks to your GPU VRMs or something. There are very few meaningful improvements you can make to a PC for a tiny fraction of the PC's value (the only exception would be adding RAM or a SSD to a really old, cheap machine that was seriously under-specced to begin with).

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

In PC-land you usually upgrade for pure performance reasons. Just like modding a car for increased horsepower, squeezing more performance out of a PC is usually very expensive: either you go apeshit on the hardware you already have to squeeze another ~20-30% out of it (in which case you need to spend a bunch of money on things like a high-quality power supply, overclocking-oriented motherboard, and semi-exotic cooling-- just like doing a big turbo build on a car), or you bin the existing stuff and just swap to a different platform that will give you a lot more performance without resorting to any kind of manic craziness (in which case you spend a bunch of money on the new silicon).

In car-land you can dislike the way your car balances in a corner, and spend ~7% of the value of your car on a swaybar swap and boom, suddenly your face is covered in a giant smile. To do something like that in the PC world you'd have to be able to double your framerate in a game by adding some three-dollar, stick-on heatsinks to your GPU VRMs or something. There are very few meaningful improvements you can make to a PC for a tiny fraction of the PC's value (the only exception would be adding RAM or a SSD to a really old, cheap machine that was seriously under-specced to begin with).

7% value of a car is a swaybar? I didn't realize they cost $1500-2000

I get what you're saying.. but perhaps the analogy could use some refinement. It's not a terrible one but extracting more from one's car isn't exactly cheap either when it comes to base performance. There are a lot of tweaks one can do with their PC for free that simply aren't possible on cars, as well, which goes complicates your analogy being relevant and accurate of what's at hand. Perceived benefit, I can see your analogy shining. People love to throw on bushings and whatnot and exclaim how drastically different their car handles, only weeks later that feeling is gone (perceived benefit = first time driving it after they threw on the mod happens all the time).

Realistically though the two are not apples to oranges so it's not easy to quantify through dollar amounts/upgrade alone.

[Zoh]

Originally Posted by fteightysix

Hello, i see your from Las Vegas.. we are to, Ive been a ASE tech for many many years, starting in high school at learning mechanics, from small engine repair to auto repair and the UTI in Houston, learning Auto and diesel, and HVAC.. great cert to have as everyone in the world wants their AC and Heater to work. anyways that started all in 1993, i learned with my father and grandfather working on old carb. cars, classic cars, like Nova's Mustangs, Vettes, Bel Airs, and the type. Anyway i learned the same way alot of people do. By just doing it, remove a bolt, nut, clip or whatever, replace what you want then install the bolt, nut, clip or what ever in the same place. If you can read and have a decent set of tools then you can do just about anything yourself. Some of the engines ive rebuilt ive never worked with before, i just grabbed the book on it and followed step by step. there are service manuals out for just about every vehicle if you search properly. including our cars which the BRZ service manual posted on this forum.

Otherwise stop by the shop here in vegas and introduce yourself, i can help you with a brake job if you want, i have all the proper tools here, after hours we can sit down and walk you through step by step on what does what and how to properly do the job.

-Thomas

For the Versa?
How much would it cost me for your time?

[gravitylover]

That's so cool. You're one of a kind!

In all my years of fiddling around with cars I've never had a tech invite me to his shop for an after hours session so I could learn about my car and learn how to do a job properly. In most cases you're asked to stand aside or not even allowed in the shop at all. I always do my best to stand off to the side and watch if at all possible though.

Originally Posted by fteightysix

Otherwise stop by the shop here in vegas and introduce yourself, i can help you with a brake job if you want, i have all the proper tools here, after hours we can sit down and walk you through step by step on what does what and how to properly do the job.

-Thomas

[86SPEED]

Originally Posted by Zoh

For the Versa?
How much would it cost me for your time?

You can call the store Zoh. 702-825-1320 Monday-Friday from 10-6. will be way cheaper then any other place, you just supply the parts, we can work on the labor

Originally Posted by gravitylover

That's so cool. You're one of a kind!

In all my years of fiddling around with cars I've never had a tech invite me to his shop for an after hours session so I could learn about my car and learn how to do a job properly. In most cases you're asked to stand aside or not even allowed in the shop at all. I always do my best to stand off to the side and watch if at all possible though.

Im here a lot after hours doing my projects or the club stuff Vegas86. That said we are not a shop persay, we do small things, headlights, suspension, tires and wheels, exhaust, intakes, and sometimes brakes. ive done a clutch, ive done a few superchargers, and turbo installs, but we dont have a lift, or anything like that. we do it on the side to help out other owners, we have a cheap "shop rate" compared to others to help out other enthusiasts and because we dont really ever want to become a full fledged shop. We have "shop days" sometimes, but mainly ill just schedule stuff to be installed thats usually a easy bolt on. Otherwise we send them to a local dealership that.... "over looks" aftermarket products mostly and have some good guys that are in the club that do great work. they do some stuff after hours to save on costs also..

[superleggera]

When I was a kid, I used to buy car magazines and I would always read them cover to cover, including DIY and tech sections. In today's age, with the internet, you have no excuse. Between youtube, forums, and other websites, there is practically infinite knowledge out there.

[Zoh]

Originally Posted by fteightysix

You can call the store Zoh. 702-825-1320 Monday-Friday from 10-6. will be way cheaper then any other place, you just supply the parts, we can work on the labor




Im here a lot after hours doing my projects or the club stuff Vegas86. That said we are not a shop persay, we do small things, headlights, suspension, tires and wheels, exhaust, intakes, and sometimes brakes. ive done a clutch, ive done a few superchargers, and turbo installs, but we dont have a lift, or anything like that. we do it on the side to help out other owners, we have a cheap "shop rate" compared to others to help out other enthusiasts and because we dont really ever want to become a full fledged shop. We have "shop days" sometimes, but mainly ill just schedule stuff to be installed thats usually a easy bolt on. Otherwise we send them to a local dealership that.... "over looks" aftermarket products mostly and have some good guys that are in the club that do great work. they do some stuff after hours to save on costs also..

How about replacing the front bumper? Or headlight resurfacing (or replacement housings?)
Would these be out of the scope of what you could help me with?

Also is there a good website you guys like for buying parts?
I've been finding it difficult to find a replacement, white front bumper for the Versa.

I know I'm a total noob at this and I know there's tons of info on the web, but sometimes it feels like there's TOO much info. When you know little to nothing and every website is using terminology designed for people who already understand these things, it gets confusing.

I've tried reading some articles, but not every writer is good at explaining things.
I get the basic concepts, but it's hard to figure out where to start is the problem.

I'm all for learning and trying, but I learn from doing, far more than I do from reading or watching videos. I'd love to learn, but I just have to figure out where to start.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by Koa

7% value of a car is a swaybar? I didn't realize they cost $1500-2000

I get what you're saying.. but perhaps the analogy could use some refinement. It's not a terrible one but extracting more from one's car isn't exactly cheap either when it comes to base performance. There are a lot of tweaks one can do with their PC for free that simply aren't possible on cars, as well, which goes complicates your analogy being relevant and accurate of what's at hand. Perceived benefit, I can see your analogy shining. People love to throw on bushings and whatnot and exclaim how drastically different their car handles, only weeks later that feeling is gone (perceived benefit = first time driving it after they threw on the mod happens all the time).

Realistically though the two are not apples to oranges so it's not easy to quantify through dollar amounts/upgrade alone.

Yeah I'm not sure what part of my ass I pulled 7% out of either, you know what I mean though

I totally know what you mean about people getting wicked placebo effect when it comes to minor car mods, but you definitely can feel the difference with things like sways and bushings. Even stuff that doesn't involve new hardware (like a new alignment) can definitely make a perceptible difference.

The only "free" things I've been able to do to improve PC performance have been silly things like homemade air ducts or just cleaning heatsinks out. I guess you can do things like trim fat from an OS installation as well, but I've only noticed performance improvements from things like that on hardware that's stupidly outdated. Maybe things are different in an office IT environment, but for home use stuff (read: gaming performance) there's usually not much free / cheap stuff you can do to improve performance beyond what I'd consider maintenance tasks (like applying driver updates and tweaking software settings)... you're not gonna bump a 3dmark score up appreciably without replacing something expensive.

[Ultramaroon]

Actually the computer analogy as an example of any complicated system, works well on many levels.

A golden rule - Change only one thing at a time.

Stay away from the shotgun approach. Instead:

1. Make a hypothesis.
2. Take relevant data.
3. Change one thing.
4. Observe and consider results.

To me it's simple shit I learned informally as a kid but I guess it's not common. The key is to never lose track of where you are in a process. That way, if you don't get the results you expected, you can back out of your change AND you can learn from those results. People make careers out of teaching it.

Changing 2 things at once is a recipe for waste and frustration.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by Koa

Eww haynes manual, what are we in the 50s-90's shaky?! D

What? No love for Chiltons?

Originally Posted by extrashaky

To keep this on topic, what we're talking about is unexpected problems. Expect them. Even in something as simple as a brake job. If it goes just like it's supposed to, great. But it rarely goes just like it's supposed to. When bolts break or calipers jam or whatever else can go wrong does, that's when you really learn something.

Working on old rusty shit sucks, but you do learn a lot from it.