is best time to buy new '15 frs now?

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

I like how you took a jab of where I'm at. Where are you basing the "captive market" comment on? Just because there's only one Toyota/Scion dealership in these supposedly hazardous roads? Have you been here lately? We have less snow than the lower 48 states at the moment. Based on your "captive market" comment, the logic would than be we really don't need to discount any vehicles at all, yet we do with every vehicle we have that's either not a Scion or is an "old age" Scion. I guess dealerships are inheritly evil and won't need to do nice things to customers without them asking/fighting for it, huh?

Oregon, eh? I know Eugene has lots of Scion/Toyota dealerships with other cities also within reach with Scion/Toyota dealerships. Why did I choose Eugene? Well, because that's where one of our sister dealerships are. Another is in Bend. I have been down there and even visited some of the competition. They all stuck to Pure Pricing, but only "gave in" to discounts when the vehicle became an "old age unit."

At least the rest of what you wrote was fairly accurate. And I think we (along with a lot of people) agree with one thing. The marketing plan and implementation is failing, and it's not because of the product either.

Inherently evil? Paranoid much?

Nope, not casting aspersions at all, just considering the fact that any dealership with sole metro market access will always be more profitable on a PNVR basis than a multi-point metro market. Kendall is enormously profitable selling fewer units than many other Portland Region multi-point metro stores. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why.

You're right though, I haven't been there since July. No hazardous roads then, just constant sun and bugs! However, in the past I've driven from Anchorage to Fairbanks in December and yes, it required concentration in total darkness. If I were in the market for a new car I wouldn't consider the drive only to arrive at yet another Kendall Scion dealership in a different captive metro market.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

There's like 5 FR-S here on the lots at the dealership I was at about 3 weeks ago, including a RS 1.0 manual. They aren't selling near like they used to. I'm sure you can get a good deal on one now because less cars on the lot = less tax to be paid by the dealer.

What tax does the dealer pay? If we go by general U.S. taxation guidelines, the dealer actually incurs taxes when they make a sale. Inventory on hand does not continually get taxed unless there's an automotive specific provision or IRC law I'm overlooking?

[2016 Camaro SS]

Originally Posted by Koa

What tax does the dealer pay? If we go by general U.S. taxation guidelines, the dealer actually incurs taxes when they make a sale. Inventory on hand does not continually get taxed unless there's an automotive specific provision or IRC law I'm overlooking?

This one is just based on Texas, so I'm not sure if this carries over to other states or not. This is why they try extremely hard to get rid of cars in December, especially 2014 models, but even 2015's as well. I've had a few people tell me this, but I've just never really researched it.

http://txdmv.gov/publications/doc_do...nventory-taxes

[Koa]

Originally Posted by 2016 Camaro SS

This one is just based on Texas, so I'm not sure if this carries over to other states or not. This is why they try extremely hard to get rid of cars in December, especially 2014 models, but even 2015's as well. I've had a few people tell me this, but I've just never really researched it.

http://txdmv.gov/publications/doc_do...nventory-taxes

According to Texas state tax code 23.122, which this pamphlet referrs to, this vehicle inventory tax (VIT) is taken at the sale of each vehicle, not simply having them on the lot. The VIT form must be completed regardless whether or not there have been any sales, but in the event of no sales, the VIT form will report $0 levied taxes to the dealership pertinent to this specific sales tax

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/TX.23.htm

We'd live in a sick, sick country if we were taxed by simply having inventory on hand. We're not far off, though. A good rule of thumb for taxation is that for every dollar one earns, the government is looking for their share. Exemptions in the form of tax credits are the only safeguard from all revenue sources- the rest are just temporary shields or, even worse, prepayments.

[2016 Camaro SS]

Originally Posted by Koa

According to Texas state tax code 23.122, which this pamphlet referrs to, this vehicle inventory tax (VIT) is taken at the sale of each vehicle, not simply having them on the lot. The VIT form must be completed regardless whether or not there have been any sales, but in the event of no sales, the VIT form will report $0 levied taxes to the dealership pertinent to this specific sales tax

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/TX.23.htm

We'd live in a sick, sick country if we were taxed by simply having inventory on hand. We're not far off, though. A good rule of thumb for taxation is that for every dollar one earns, the government is looking for their share. Exemptions in the form of tax credits are the only safeguard from all revenue sources- the rest are just temporary shields or, even worse, prepayments.

This is also why I never became an accountant, lol.

[Blitzenn]

Scion has a price guarantee. The dealer can't over-price the car without risking their dealership license. So the sticker is what you are going to pay (less may have some room, but I doubt it as the margins as so low). You can negotiate on the ancillary items though, such as trade and extras. So with that said, now is the best time. The closer you get to spring the less likely the dealer is going want to negotiate knowing that their number of potential customers is going to go way up. If you are going to Clean Deal it though, the best time is when you are ready, the dealer can't move anywhere on price on you with a clean deal.


If you want a Special Edition model (RS1), you best go after it now. They are selling out fast.

[FirestormFRS]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Based on? I have monthly goals but I'm not desperate enough to try and violate policies, putting my job on the line. Your assumption is you have the sales people practically bending manufacturer policies just to sell you a car. Wrong. Doing that will not only risk the sales person's job, but the dealerships right to sell the manufacturer's vehicles and the manufacturer's backing. Yes, we'll do our best to get to the numbers you're comfortable with, but that's just it. We're problem solving by finding ways to sell you the car without violating policies. But if your demands are just ridiculous and practically impossible to meet, then of course you're going to get what you think is unsatisfactory service.

I'll take mine out the door for invoice minus incentive and all hold backs and you'll like it sir!

[gt8613]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Not really, no. Some dealerships still can do markups. It just means that when they markup one of the Scions, the entire year and model of that Scion also gets the same exact markup.




Yes, that's one way to look at it, but true.




I take it this was high on sarcasm. Leather? On an FR-S? Srsly? I guess the Monogram Series is a dealer markup from the base?

But on all seriousness, this is such a ridiculous spin on the truth. Yes, again, some dealerships do markup. But, again, by Pure Pricing policy, if the dealership throw in dealer installed equipment in one of them (like a remote start or aftermarket rims), the dealership now has to provide the same exact thing in all of the same exact year and model of that Scion it was installed in. The only way a dealer can get around that is to offer the remote start, rims, whatever as an addition to the purchase of the vehicle, meaning not pre-installed.


And just so people don't think what I say is heresay, this is direct from Scion's website.

My comment was not high on sarcasm but completely factual. Don't feel offended because the dealership that I was talking about is in San Jose on Capitol Expressway. I have never been to Alaska so I don't how you do things there. These cars were not Monograms... it was early 2013 and yes dealers installers two-tone leather on the seats and were charging (no kidding) up to $6000 markup for leather and "regional adjustment".

I think I did make a comment on the Dealership Blacklist thread at the time.

It would be a cold day in hell when stealerships will stop existing. Am I calling you one? Like I said before... I have never been there.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by gt8613

It would be a cold day in hell when stealerships will stop existing. Am I calling you one? Like I said before... I have never been there.

Others who have shopped there voiced their opinions on edmunds.com. Again, this isn't necessarily a reflection on PhantomX, and the happy customers don't post as often as those who believe they've been treated unfairly or unethically, but the linked comments are brutal:

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/A...ml?make=Toyota

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/A...ml?make=Toyota

Especially when compared to the largest volume dealership in the Portland Region selling in a multi-point metro market.

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/O...n/sales.1.html

[JGalp]

i bought my 2015 limited CWP BRZ for 27.1 back in september when they were first getting it. i don't think it matters when it matters who and how you talk and negotiate. i used truce as a haggling tool and told them I'm not bullshitting if i can get the price i want i will put a 500 dollar deposit on it over the phone and come pick it up tomorrow. that strategy worked for me.

[PhantomX]

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

I'll take mine out the door for invoice minus incentive and all hold backs and you'll like it sir!

Haha. If only it was that easy. In all fairness, employees in my dealership get 3% over invoice pricing for vehicles we purchase. Unfortunately, with Scions, 3% over invoice pricing is usually over MSRP because of the low amount of difference between dealership invoice and MSRP. But we do get people that will say something like that and demand additional discounts after that.

Originally Posted by gt8613

My comment was not high on sarcasm but completely factual. Don't feel offended because the dealership that I was talking about is in San Jose on Capitol Expressway. I have never been to Alaska so I don't how you do things there. These cars were not Monograms... it was early 2013 and yes dealers installers two-tone leather on the seats and were charging (no kidding) up to $6000 markup for leather and "regional adjustment".

I think I did make a comment on the Dealership Blacklist thread at the time.

It would be a cold day in hell when stealerships will stop existing. Am I calling you one? Like I said before... I have never been there.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by torqdork

Others who have shopped there voiced their opinions on edmunds.com. Again, this isn't necessarily a reflection on PhantomX, and the happy customers don't post as often as those who believe they've been treated unfairly or unethically, but the linked comments are brutal:

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/A...ml?make=Toyota

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/A...ml?make=Toyota

Especially when compared to the largest volume dealership in the Portland Region selling in a multi-point metro market.

http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/O...n/sales.1.html

Now, I could point out that some of the negative feedback is highly vague or simply misinformation from whoever "informed them of the situation" (I won't deny that every dealership has their slimy sales person. I can personally say that I've witnessed some lie through their teeth just to make a sale, and others just throw potential customers that they already gauged won't even buy towards other sales consultants to make them waste their time or weasel their way into a sale over a vague 5 minute phone call or 5 minute "interview" of the customer, as well as our own local sister dealerships making false claims and putting down my dealership just to "beautify" their brand) which leads into question the legitimacy of some (not all) of the feedbacks. But, you did point out something that is the key phrase; People are even more vocal about their bad experience than their good experience. No company has ever received little to no bad rating from unsatisfied customers. From a personal standpoint, I can say we have our own customer relations manager, not a PR department scouring the internet, so unless he hears the negative feedback, the issue the customer had won't get addressed/resolved/improved.

[FirestormFRS]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Haha. If only it was that easy. In all fairness, employees in my dealership get 3% over invoice pricing for vehicles we purchase. Unfortunately, with Scions, 3% over invoice pricing is usually over MSRP because of the low amount of difference between dealership invoice and MSRP. But we do get people that will say something like that and demand additional discounts after that.

I'm not going to disparage you in anyway since you seem a nice guy.
I get that price through the mother ship. Your dealership isn't giving you much of a discout though.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

...From a personal standpoint, I can say we have our own customer relations manager, not a PR department scouring the internet, so unless he hears the negative feedback, the issue the customer had won't get addressed/resolved/improved.

True, I'm sure your CR manager doesn't have the time to filter 'net comments, but maybe it would help if you showed them how Wilsonville responds to complaints on a blog the size of Edmunds and makes lemonade.

You sound like a credit to your dealership operation. I hope you make it into management if you aren't already.

Here's to a great 2014 and even better 2015. Your operation is truck sales king, especially Tundra, that's for sure.