320hp brz still gets smoked by 320 wrx and lancers

[stugray]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Ok everybody, we're not talking about purpose built drag cars, F1 cars, or any kind of race car. We're talking about modified street cars with no where near enough power to cause a complete transfer of weight from the front wheels, especially if the suspension is stiff. AWD street cars in general are able to put power down better, but also harder to launch smoothly. There are lots of factors on how AWD and RWD cars launch effectively - the suspension & diff in the FRS/BRZ are not optimized for drag racing. In the end, stories like this usually come down to driver skill, especially with launching. If you want to compare outright power and engine flexibility, do 3rd gear roll, and see how well your 320whp FRS goes.

This all started because of the OPs statement:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQ

Is it the high compression of the fa20 turboed engines or what? Lancers and stis keep smoking me. Should I save for a built lower compressed engine? Change my gear lengths?

Followed by this response:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

AWD vs RWD. No matter what you do, AWD traction will always win.

Which when talking about drag racing is patently false.
And your statement is correct.
AWD has an advantage over RWD up to a point as HP number climb.
Once you get to the point that you have enough HP to begin to lift the front tires, the AWD car is at a disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

You're wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore. Guess what, when you say equal traction on both cars that's in an ideal situation which never happens. I watched a wrx run a 10.99@126 and I ran a 11.11@129 on the same track, same day, same lane. You can only use what power you can put to the ground and awd puts power to the ground better that's why it was invented.

Ok, I give up. AWD drag cars are faster than RWD drag cars THATS WHY you see so many AWD dragsters - YOU WIN!

[Dipstik-sportech]

Again dumbass we're talking about street cars not top fuel. Go watch lambos and gtrs destroy supras and vetted with way more power and then come and offer "advice". Or better yet go do some racing yourself.

[Porcupint]

I'll just drop this here.... Don't see many RWD cars running these times with full interior and they certainly aren't very street-able either.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTX4xUNgrc#t=24"]Buschur Shootout 14 - WORLD RECORD - AGAIN - ETS GTR - 7.80 @ 182MPH - English Racing - YouTube[/ame]

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Again dumbass we're talking about street cars not top fuel. Go watch lambos and gtrs destroy supras and vetted with way more power and then come and offer "advice". Or better yet go do some racing yourself.

OK DUMBASS - I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO SAID:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

AWD vs RWD. No matter what you do, AWD traction will always win. .

OR are you saying this is a true statement?

AGAIN: WHY are 13 of the top 15 laptimes at the ring RWD?
Based on the statement above (which you appear to be supporting) ALL 15 of the top laptimes should be AWD.
MAYBE - the FACT is that AWD does NOT automatically make a car faster than a RWD.

Those other cars are NOT BEATING THE OPS CAR JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE AWD!

[KoolBRZ]

I think if your street racing has corners, you're getting beat by the 4 wheel drift corner an awd car can do when setup properly. Our cars slide awesomely around corners, but not real quickly, since there's no power to the front wheels to pull it through. It's like rally in a way, since the race is won in the corners. If you are street racing in a straight line however, that's a whole nother setup.

[sw20kosh]

@stugray

People are not talking about dragsters that can unload almost all weight from the front tires. They are talking about evo and sti which are street cars. GTR's and 911 turbo's with AWD are incredible launchers too and will desimate RWD cars with equal power during a launch.

The AWD system uses all 4 tires to launch the car rather than just 2 rear ones. There is much more grip when you are propelling a car with 4 instead of 2 wheels.

I really hope you are just trolling.

[toast]

Originally Posted by stugray

AND if all you care about is drag racing, how can AWD possibly be an advantage?
In fact in street drag racing AWD is a disadvantage (that is unless your car can somehow hold the front wheels down under hard acceleration).

I'm not sure what is more awesome, that bench racing essay or this statement. At least the essay was meant to be funny.

"Why's your STI so slow brah?"
"I keep pulling wheelies off the line."

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by stugray

Not "Silly" at all.

I would like to you to explain how a AWD car can be faster in a street race (DRAG race).
What? does the EVO have a magical wing on the front that has downforce at 0 MPH?
If AWD makes a car faster then that explains why F1 cars are AWD right?



Maybe if you are drag racing backwards.....

As already said, they're banned. Also comparing modern AWD systems to the systems they had on those F1 cars is foolish. They had more in common with a 4x4 truck than a modern AWD system.

Originally Posted by stugray

There's the secret. If both cars just light the tires off the line (plenty of hp), then the AWD will have the advantage while the wheels are smoking.

If OTOH we assume both drivers are at the limit of traction (or TCS is on), then both cars apply full power to the wheels up to the traction limit...
Then as they accelerate off the line they must transfer all torque to the rear wheels as weight shifts off the front wheels.
So the AWD car just locks the center diff as the front wheels lift off the ground giving all the torque to the rear wheels.
Now both cars are on equal footing (RWD only), except NOW the AWD car is carrying all that extra weight of the AWD system for no additional advantage

You're assuming the cars have enough power or traction to lift the front wheels. They don't, so this is a moot point.

Originally Posted by Sypher

......you do realize that even at a full launch when weight transfers to the rear tires not all of the weight leaves the front end right? you do also realize that an AWD car does not do a wheelie at launch and completely lifts the front tires off the ground right? the front tires are still assisting in moving the car forward.

AWD cars on a street will always beat a 2WD car from a dig with comparable power and street tires on both cars.


also like someone else said above the STi's have a ton of torque. Torque wins races not Horse Power.

Torque does NOT win races, horsepower does. I'm not going to teach what horsepower is and it's mathematical relevancy to torque, but if what you said is true, we'd all be running diesels.

Originally Posted by Reaper

Your "opponents" may be making similar whp but both of those cars at that hp are making almost double the torque you are. Torque is king. 350wtq in our cars is stupid fast and usually only people near 500hp make that on the fa20. A 320whp evo or sti could be making that torque

Again, torque doesn't mean jack.

Originally Posted by stugray

This all started because of the OPs statement:



Followed by this response:



Which when talking about drag racing is patently false.
And your statement is correct.
AWD has an advantage over RWD up to a point as HP number climb.
Once you get to the point that you have enough HP to begin to lift the front tires, the AWD car is at a disadvantage.




Ok, I give up. AWD drag cars are faster than RWD drag cars THATS WHY you see so many AWD dragsters - YOU WIN!

You're the one that assumed that the cars have enough power to lift the front tires...

Not to mention the simple fact that FWD drag cars exist blows your entire argument to hell.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53hxmksuaM"]Chris Rado WORLD Racing "Over The Top" - YouTube[/ame]

[phrosty]

Ahh, that moment when people realize how useless and misleading these fun peak horsepower numbers we throw around are.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by AnthonyQ

God I love you all

Well trolled.

[toast]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Torque does NOT win races, horsepower does. I'm not going to teach what horsepower is and it's mathematical relevancy to torque, but if what you said is true, we'd all be running diesels.

Torque does Work. Power does Work in a certain amount of time. If you are racing you probably care about that 'certain amount of time' bit...

[Dipstik-sportech]

Let me refresh your memory there bud.

Originally Posted by stugray

Not "Silly" at all.

I would like to you to explain how a AWD car can be faster in a street race (DRAG race).
What? does the EVO have a magical wing on the front that has downforce at 0 MPH?
If AWD makes a car faster then that explains why F1 cars are AWD right?



Maybe if you are drag racing backwards.....

In a street drag race with both cars having equal horse power 99% of the time the awd will win just because it has better traction, ask me how I know this. As stated before conditions are never ideal and you need to make the best of what you have to work with.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

Or better yet go do some racing yourself.

FYI - I have more years driving experience in my current race car (2.0L 4cyl boxer) than the average age of people on this forum.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Drag racing or bench racing ?