Clutch engaging in NEUTRAL!!! Toyota hasn't solved it yet... - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

bellison13 · 12-08-2014, 02:16 PM

Has anyone else had this issue?

Cold start...and it has to be pretty cold out...but cold start, let clutch out, RPMs drop 200-300 and in neutral she pulls forward a few inches. Put clutch in and RPMs raise back up..let out and they drop... When it first happened I felt it just bump the ebrake some...but when I put the ebrake down the car actually pulled forward a few inches. Once warmed up there is no issue and no pull. Car has been with toyota for almost a week now with no answer yet as to why.

Any help is appreciated! Thank you!

radroach · 12-08-2014, 02:18 PM

Why would the car move forward in neutral. Something doesn't add up. Make us a video.

stugray · 12-08-2014, 02:23 PM

In a manual trans, there are parts rubbing against each other even with the engine in neutral.
The drag for the oil (which is worse when cold) will exert some torque on the gears even when they are not engaged.
This is in the needle bearings between the gears and the drive shafts.

This is normal.
Now if you said it was doing that with the clutch disengaged then you have a problem.

If you start a man trans car in neutral on jackstands, the wheels WILL begin to spin up but you can stop them with just your hands.

kevman_101 · 12-08-2014, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugray

In a manual trans, there are parts rubbing against each other even with the engine in neutral.
The drag for the oil (which is worse when cold) will exert some torque on the gears even when they are not engaged.
This is in the needle bearings between the gears and the drive shafts.

This is normal.
Now if you said it was doing that with the clutch disengaged then you have a problem.

If you start a man trans car in neutral on jackstands, the wheels WILL begin to spin up but you can stop them with just your hands.

It`s normal. Don`t sweat it.

Ozzman · 12-08-2014, 07:45 PM

Just exactly how cold are you talking about. A 2-300 rpm drop when releasing the clutch in neutral is not normal, and there should never be enough friction in the system to move the car on flat ground in neutral.

mav1178 · 12-08-2014, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugray

In a manual trans, there are parts rubbing against each other even with the engine in neutral.
The drag for the oil (which is worse when cold) will exert some torque on the gears even when they are not engaged.
This is in the needle bearings between the gears and the drive shafts.

This is normal.
Now if you said it was doing that with the clutch disengaged then you have a problem.

If you start a man trans car in neutral on jackstands, the wheels WILL begin to spin up but you can stop them with just your hands.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_VcwWjFf-4"]Exhaust note comparison - stock vs Tomei Expreme 80R - YouTube[/ame]

for a visual representation of this.

-alex

Akari · 12-08-2014, 08:51 PM

That doesn't sound normal to me. Sure there is still a bit of friction, but friction from fluid shouldn't be enough to move thousands of pounds of car forward. On jackstands you can see there is normally so little force that you can stop a wheel with one hand.

DocWalt · 12-08-2014, 09:18 PM

This is 100% normal.

continuecrushing · 12-08-2014, 09:25 PM

I'm so confused by all the details in this thread

mav1178 · 12-08-2014, 10:18 PM

What oil are you running in the car?
What clutch do you have?
How cold is "very cold" at startup?

Seems like your fluid is causing some type of excessive drag on the input shaft, which is making your RPMs lower when the clutch is engaged with the flywheel.

The armchair mechanic in me thinks your transmission fluid is too thick for your temperature range.

-alex

DocWalt · 12-08-2014, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mav1178

What oil are you running in the car?
What clutch do you have?
How cold is "very cold" at startup?

Seems like your fluid is causing some type of excessive drag on the input shaft, which is making your RPMs lower when the clutch is engaged with the flywheel.

The armchair mechanic in me thinks your transmission fluid is too thick for your temperature range.

-alex

Exactly. If I leave my track gear oil in over the winter and start it up on stands I can't grab the wheel and slow it down unless I want a finger taken off.

I have a feeling the OP has OEM fluid, which slightly surprises me that the car physically moves, but who knows.

Ultramaroon · 12-09-2014, 01:23 AM

Perfectly normal. All of my cars have done it in cold weather - significantly below freezing. This is a pretty light machine.

DieselDog · 12-09-2014, 01:43 AM

What you are experiencing is normal

Even though many have said it already.

12-08-2014, 02:16 PM	#1
bellison13 Bellison Join Date: Jan 2013 Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S Location: Easton, MD Posts: 17 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Clutch engaging in NEUTRAL!!! Toyota hasn't solved it yet... Has anyone else had this issue? Cold start...and it has to be pretty cold out...but cold start, let clutch out, RPMs drop 200-300 and in neutral she pulls forward a few inches. Put clutch in and RPMs raise back up..let out and they drop... When it first happened I felt it just bump the ebrake some...but when I put the ebrake down the car actually pulled forward a few inches. Once warmed up there is no issue and no pull. Car has been with toyota for almost a week now with no answer yet as to why. Any help is appreciated! Thank you!

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12-08-2014, 02:18 PM	#2
radroach Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: car Location: usa Posts: 2,162 Thanks: 1,028 Thanked 867 Times in 530 Posts Mentioned: 35 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	Why would the car move forward in neutral. Something doesn't add up. Make us a video.

12-08-2014, 02:23 PM	#3
stugray Banned Join Date: Sep 2013 Drives: 2013 GBS BRZ Limited Location: Colorado Posts: 1,925 Thanks: 627 Thanked 1,445 Times in 711 Posts Mentioned: 41 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	In a manual trans, there are parts rubbing against each other even with the engine in neutral. The drag for the oil (which is worse when cold) will exert some torque on the gears even when they are not engaged. This is in the needle bearings between the gears and the drive shafts. This is normal. Now if you said it was doing that with the clutch disengaged then you have a problem. If you start a man trans car in neutral on jackstands, the wheels WILL begin to spin up but you can stop them with just your hands.

12-08-2014, 07:45 PM	#5
Ozzman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: old Location: Roswell Posts: 232 Thanks: 188 Thanked 103 Times in 59 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Just exactly how cold are you talking about. A 2-300 rpm drop when releasing the clutch in neutral is not normal, and there should never be enough friction in the system to move the car on flat ground in neutral.

12-08-2014, 08:51 PM	#7
Akari Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Drives: 2013 DGM BRZ Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 417 Thanks: 181 Thanked 149 Times in 97 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	That doesn't sound normal to me. Sure there is still a bit of friction, but friction from fluid shouldn't be enough to move thousands of pounds of car forward. On jackstands you can see there is normally so little force that you can stop a wheel with one hand.

12-08-2014, 09:18 PM	#8
DocWalt Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Drives: '22 BRZ Location: PA Posts: 1,955 Thanks: 2,429 Thanked 1,681 Times in 850 Posts Mentioned: 25 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	This is 100% normal.

12-08-2014, 09:25 PM	#9
continuecrushing Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 Firestorm FRS Location: Lake Elsinore, CA Posts: 2,707 Thanks: 1,231 Thanked 2,144 Times in 1,003 Posts Mentioned: 73 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	I'm so confused by all the details in this thread

12-08-2014, 10:18 PM	#10
mav1178 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Drives: 2005 Toyota Camry Location: 91745 Posts: 6,562 Thanks: 493 Thanked 6,099 Times in 3,030 Posts Mentioned: 95 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	What oil are you running in the car? What clutch do you have? How cold is "very cold" at startup? Seems like your fluid is causing some type of excessive drag on the input shaft, which is making your RPMs lower when the clutch is engaged with the flywheel. The armchair mechanic in me thinks your transmission fluid is too thick for your temperature range. -alex

12-09-2014, 01:23 AM	#12
Ultramaroon not playing cards Join Date: Sep 2014 Drives: a 13 e8h frs Location: vantucky, wa Posts: 32,395 Thanks: 53,053 Thanked 37,228 Times in 19,308 Posts Mentioned: 1118 Post(s) Tagged: 9 Thread(s)	Perfectly normal. All of my cars have done it in cold weather - significantly below freezing. This is a pretty light machine.

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