Haters gonna Hate...vandalism on our FR-S

[fatalelement]

Here's something I will say: "what do they have to hide" isn't a really valid line of logic here.

For example, cell phone companies have a lot of your personal data, but require pretty hefty subpoenas from law enforcement to hand it over. They don't want to give people the idea that they don't value your privacy at all.

As a high school, they have a vested interest in reasonably resisting a person asking them to just hand over their security tapes of surveiled minors.

He has little evidence, so you can understand why someone saying "hey can you let me see all your footage because x might have happened according to my son", they might be a little hesitant.

He has no right to see the footage, under any circumstance. The court has the right to subpoena it for evidence. This is not likely to happen.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, I actually believe him and his son, I caught someone f*cking with my car in the lot once before they did any damage. But just realize you are in a very tenuous position compared to them and being a paying parent doesn't really give you any sort of leverage, actually, and neither will a lawyer because the school isn't really liable for this under any sort of negligence theory.

Best of luck though.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by fatalelement

He has little evidence, so you can understand why someone saying "hey can you let me see all your footage because x might have happened according to my son", they might be a little hesitant.

No, I can't understand that.

The evidence he has is his son's statement that he parked the car in a school parking lot and came back to find that someone had damaged it while it was there on school property. The damage itself is evidence that something happened to the car. If the parking lot has cameras pointed at it, the best way to find out what happened to it is to review the footage. The footage is either going to show the source of the damage or prove that the car was not damaged there, either of which will resolve the matter with the school.

There's no expectation of privacy in a public parking lot, not even for teenagers. There are no privacy excuses for not providing the video. The only reason they would have for not allowing him to see the video is if the school officials have something to hide.

He may not have the legal right to view the video. But that doesn't mean he can't ask. And it doesn't mean he can't make an unholy nuisance of himself to the school administrator if the administrator won't cooperate. If he gets a call from a lawyer demanding the video, he might just decide whatever he's hiding is not worth it and hand it over.

And one other thing. If the school administrators say that the video doesn't show anything happening to the car, they are in essence calling the OP's son a liar. I think if they're going to imply that, they need to back it up by providing access to the video.

At this point the school appears to have an ongoing problem with continuing vandalism of cars on their parking lot, and not only are they doing nothing about it, they are obstructing the parent's efforts to get to the bottom of it and protecting the vandal. At some point the responsibility for this ongoing damage does shift to the school.

[fatalelement]

Important I'm Not Your Lawyer / Don't Report Me to the State Bar Disclaimer: None of the following is legal advice, and I don't in any way represent you or your interests.

Also, I feel like we're getting into weird philosophical and legal debates here, but legal debates is my career so I'm happy to nerd out:

They viewed it and said they didn't find anything. They have no obligation to hand it over. Expectation of privacy isn't an issue - this isn't a legal matter of illegal recording. Cell phone and internet companies don't resist subpoenas because they have to - in fact they could legally hand your info over the first moment a cop asks them to. But they don't, because it's considered bad form and makes it seem like they don't guard the information carefully. But this situation isn't as heavy, you are correct.

However, blaming them for not doing enough to stop it is a meaningless argument outside of a lengthy and quite frankly, useless legal battle because unless you find a bottom-of-the-barrel lawyer, it'll cost a lot more than 20k to hit up a major school with a lawsuit and argue over negligence liability for property damage.

I also don't think they're calling OP's son a liar. There's a wide time frame where the damage could have occurred, and they only have theories as to who did it and the school has already been very, very oddly forthcoming with info, according to OP. Where I went to school, the administration would never tell a random person a minor child's life schedule, because that's actually skirting questionable legality. Educational info is legally protected and barred from disclosure, including any records they hold on students. I do think it's weird they won't let him see it, but not unheard of. It's bad form to let someone see your entire security system, and even worse to just send them a copy of the tapes.

It's possible what happened is what happened to me: my mother borrowed my old car, and she went to work (nice, fancy private elementary school in Santa Monica). While in the teacher lot, someone broke in and stole my drumsticks and my GPS, leaving my $20 bill in the cupholder because they were really, really into my 15 sets of used jazz drumsticks and navigating to their next gig, I guess. The tapes were viewed (not by my mom, but by the police) but the resolution was so bad they couldn't see any faces or license plates. They were pretty embarrassed about that, as it seemed they were mostly a deterrent not a safeguard. I wouldn't doubt that a high school isn't using real, real nice cameras in the lot. Dunno how nice the place is. But if it's a blur, or no visible face is present, the LAST THING I would EVER do is show that to a parent who definitely has a target in mind because you know that's only going to make him "sure that's him/her".

OP: I think the best bet you have is to calmly file a police report, because until you do so, the school has no sort of pressure. You and your lawyer can't do anything at all, and filing frivolous lawsuits or requests for things isn't a level-headed way to get this from the school. As someone with a fair amount of actual legal experience, making people bristly early on is a one-way ticket to No-Cooperationville, Population: everyone who you need something from. Only ever threaten someone as your absolute last resort, when being reasonable is explicitly something they said they aren't interested in hearing.

I'd tell them that you are concerned, and appreciate their help and understand why they might not want to share everything with you, but because you aren't satisfied with the resolution here you're considering filing a police report.

For a bonus, if they have a lawyer there, you can mention things like: your son doesn't feel safe at school with this continuing, the constant harassment is disrupting his studies, etc. (which obviously have to be true), because these things are fun torts with unlimited damages and will make lawyers super uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

No, I can't understand that.

The evidence he has is his son's statement that he parked the car in a school parking lot and came back to find that someone had damaged it while it was there on school property. The damage itself is evidence that something happened to the car. If the parking lot has cameras pointed at it, the best way to find out what happened to it is to review the footage. The footage is either going to show the source of the damage or prove that the car was not damaged there, either of which will resolve the matter with the school.

There's no expectation of privacy in a public parking lot, not even for teenagers. There are no privacy excuses for not providing the video. The only reason they would have for not allowing him to see the video is if the school officials have something to hide.

He may not have the legal right to view the video. But that doesn't mean he can't ask. And it doesn't mean he can't make an unholy nuisance of himself to the school administrator if the administrator won't cooperate. If he gets a call from a lawyer demanding the video, he might just decide whatever he's hiding is not worth it and hand it over.

And one other thing. If the school administrators say that the video doesn't show anything happening to the car, they are in essence calling the OP's son a liar. I think if they're going to imply that, they need to back it up by providing access to the video.

At this point the school appears to have an ongoing problem with continuing vandalism of cars on their parking lot, and not only are they doing nothing about it, they are obstructing the parent's efforts to get to the bottom of it and protecting the vandal. At some point the responsibility for this ongoing damage does shift to the school.

[torqdork]

Excellent opinion, Counselor. And the price was right.

Sorry about the drumsticks.

[fatalelement]

Originally Posted by torqdork

Excellent opinion, Counselor. And the price was right.

Sorry about the drumsticks.

I had even left my drumsticks from the game Rock Band there. He took those too. He was a madman. What's the black market for used drumsticks?? Why didn't he want $20?? So many mysteries. So many.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by fatalelement

As someone with a fair amount of actual legal experience, making people bristly early on is a one-way ticket to No-Cooperationville, Population: everyone who you need something from. Only ever threaten someone as your absolute last resort, when being reasonable is explicitly something they said they aren't interested in hearing.

You're right that it's usually better to coax what you need out of people. I audit people for a living, and I usually get the documentation and information I need from them a lot easier by keeping it positive and friendly.

However, there may be a time element here you're overlooking. If they are recording video to a server that overwrites after a certain amount of time, the footage may be in danger of being lost. They have already stalled to the point that I'm wondering if the relevant footage even exists any more. I would be willing to become a nuisance in this sort of situation to make sure my only evidence wasn't lost as a result of incompetence or worse.

Everybody seems to be treating this as no big deal. It's only door dings, right?

I have a small (1/2") ding in my hood from a rock tossed up by a truck. The body shop estimated that it would cost about $600 to fix it because the dent has to be pulled and the entire hood repainted. PDR is not an option because the rock cut down to the primer.

OP now has several dings in his car on multiple body panels. Chances are pretty good he's into thousands of dollars in damage, despite the fact that it doesn't show up in a picture. This is not a small matter. This is something that needs to be stopped immediately to prevent further damage, and it really doesn't sound like the school is taking it seriously. It sounds to me as though they are humoring what they see as an angry parent who will just go away if they keep smiling and give him time.

He doesn't have to sue them to get results, but I think we're in agreement that some pressure is necessary, if for no other reason to get it into their heads that he isn't just going to let it go.

[GhostRai]

British Columbia, home to the spoiled kids from China... R35, multiple M3 E92's, 2015 WRX STI, 370Z, plenty of Lexuses, Lotus Elise, Maserati's, Bentley Continental GT.. All of these I have seen outside my high school driven by students.

[Turbo95eg6]

Originally Posted by GhostRai

British Columbia, home to the spoiled kids from China... R35, multiple M3 E92's, 2015 WRX STI, 370Z, plenty of Lexuses, Lotus Elise, Maserati's, Bentley Continental GT.. All of these I have seen outside my high school driven by students.

C'mon now, I'm sure they all worked hard for it.

[extrashaky]

Any update?

[Speeding]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I have never had anything negative said or done to my car.


Could it possibly be that your son is a douche and pissed some people off?

Could it possibly be that some of you people who have had their cars vandalized, pissed someone off?

Nah, that couldn't be. Your cars get messed with because people are "Jealous".

This is my 1st post here after a while of reading tons of great comments on this forum.

The above comment sort of rubbed me the wrong way, enough to where I'm curious if this guy's just trolling, or he lives in a place of spells and fairies.

Where do you live, because I really want to move there? Thinking that people who are douches, or have ticked someone off are the only people who get door dings is absurd. I've never heard of a place where everyone is that considerate.

I live between Baltimore and DC, where many people are completely self absorbed toolbags. I just received 2 door dings in the last 2 weeks. Before that I went many months without a scratch. If you have a nicer car, and someone else has a junker, it's not uncommon for them to let their door fling open and slam into your door without any regrets. Many times it probably has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy, or a previous encounter with the offender that ticked them off.

In grocery store/mall parking lots I park at the very back, away from all other cars because I know how people are.

1 of the 2 dings happened in the parking lot at work, and the other was in the community parking where I live. Now at work I park further away, and on the street. At home the guy who dinged me was a visitor. I know it was his car because some of his paint is now embedded into my door. I took tons of pictures of how close he parked, and how I was 2 feet inside my line. I am waiting to handle this myself when I see his car again, and I look for it often. Leaving a note does absolutely nothing in this day and age, unless you're leaving that note after blocking their car in. Then the note would need to say for them to call you when they need to get their car out.

*CAUTION* Please don't try this at home unless you are fully aware of what will probably happen.


I've given up on people doing the right thing. I've decided to invest in a professional PDR kit, which is about $170 for a quality kit. The cheaper versions that you find on Amazon really only help for some types of dents, and they never end up being perfect. There's a place around where I live that does Paintless Dent Repair, they charge about $90 per door ding (quarter sized ding), and they use the exact same tool. Just google 'PDR Tool' and you'll see the one that I'm referring to.


**Please excuse my ignorance if someone else has already addressed this post. I haven't finished reading the thread yet.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Speeding

This is my 1st post here after a while of reading tons of great comments on this forum.

The above comment sort of rubbed me the wrong way, enough to where I'm curious if this guy's just trolling, or he lives in a place of spells and fairies.

Where do you live, because I really want to move there? Thinking that people who are douches, or have ticked someone off are the only people who get door dings is absurd. I've never heard of a place where everyone is that considerate.

I live between Baltimore and DC, where many people are completely self absorbed toolbags. I just received 2 door dings in the last 2 weeks. Before that I went many months without a scratch. If you have a nicer car, and someone else has a junker, it's not uncommon for them to let their door fling open and slam into your door without any regrets. Many times it probably has absolutely nothing to do with jealousy, or a previous encounter with the offender that ticked them off.

In grocery store/mall parking lots I park at the very back, away from all other cars because I know how people are.

1 of the 2 dings happened in the parking lot at work, and the other was in the community parking where I live. Now at work I park further away, and on the street. At home the guy who dinged me was a visitor. I know it was his car because some of his paint is now embedded into my door. I took tons of pictures of how close he parked, and how I was 2 feet inside my line. I am waiting to handle this myself when I see his car again, and I look for it often. Leaving a note does absolutely nothing in this day and age, unless you're leaving that note after blocking their car in. Then the note would need to say for them to call you when they need to get their car out.

*CAUTION* Please don't try this at home unless you are fully aware of what will probably happen.


I've given up on people doing the right thing. I've decided to invest in a professional PDR kit, which is about $170 for a quality kit. The cheaper versions that you find on Amazon really only help for some types of dents, and they never end up being perfect. There's a place around where I live that does Paintless Dent Repair, they charge about $90 per door ding (quarter sized ding), and they use the exact same tool. Just google 'PDR Tool' and you'll see the one that I'm referring to.


**Please excuse my ignorance if someone else has already addressed this post. I haven't finished reading the thread yet.

No Tahdizzle is far from a troll and was one of the more realistic posters on this thread.
The OP was saying that all the "damage" to his car was deliberate vandalism not just simple bad mannered door dings.
Tah was just addressing that aspect of the claim.
There are inconsiderate jerks that will bang their doors against your car everyplace. The sad part is that many may not even realize they did it so leaving notes or chasing them is pointless as they will simply think it wasn't them.
I get scared to death every time a SUV full of kids pull in bedside me as the doors can open at velocities I would not believe possible and kids have no concept of what can happen if they fling them open too far.

[Speeding]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Wow, just Wow!
I have no clue as to all the U.S. Laws but am pretty sure you need a licence to be a "Private I" It does not mean that anybody can act as one.
The very reason that the police and school should be investigating is because they are trained and authorized to do it. They are also not emotionally involved so can act based on facts and evidence not "he looked nervous".
The law is for the people yes, upholding it is not each individuals right. Pretty sure that vigilantism is also illegal in most States for very good reason. The OP's actions could result in somebody hart at worst and destroy any chance of the proper people doing any form of investigation at best.
You obviously have a lot of contempt for authority but it is authority that keeps the peace not individuals that decide what is right or wrong.
You totally missed the point of the definition. The very act of stalking is a crime not the intent or reason for the stalking. OP has repeatedly said he has been watching this guy and went as far as hiding his wife in the back of a car! Stalking!!!


Once again the OP has presented no solid evidence that there was even an act of vandalism much less that his "suspect" did it.

Dude really?

The OP is not following this guy to his house, or anywhere actually. Parking down the street and watching your car is not a crime, and it's not stalking. The OP has absolutely no reason to be concerned.

I've thought a few of his comments were a little off (the he knew I was there for him type comments, or the busted when he still has no proof), but what his wife and him are doing is not against the law. The mentality where it's up to the police to investigate, and the school to handle leads me back to this place of spells and fairies people must be from.

The police have zero time to investigate door dings, they'd laugh at you after you left if you asked them to. The school may have video cameras, but who knows if they're on all the time, if they work, or they're even pointed at this kids car.

If the OP wants to stake out his car, it's up to him. I say if you're going to do that though, you had better be filming it so you can have proof. Then take that proof to the police/school, and not handle it yourself.



Me, I've personally learned over time. When I got out of the military I moved to downtown Baltimore to live with some friends. The very first night, someone broke my window and looted my car. The car doors were unlocked because I left nothing in the car worth stealing, but they broke the window anyway.

People there had told me that groups of guys walk up and down the street breaking into cars at night around midnight. The next night I decided to sleep in my car, .. with my .45.

That night I saw about 20+ people walking up and down the street checking cars. I couldn't believe that these punks rolled with that many people, but I guess there's safety in numbers. Anyway, I figured that I didn't have enough bullets so when they got close enough, I got out, I put my gun into my pants and made sure that they saw the gun and that this was my car. They never touched my car again. Again, this is not a recommendation, don't do this at home! My stupid antics were very dangerous and I shouldn't have done them.

Moral of the story is, that what I did was pretty extreme, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with what this OP is doing by staking out his car. There's a big difference between watching your car, and stalking a person.


The only suggestion I would make would be for him to get a video camera.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No Tahdizzle is far from a troll and was one of the more realistic posters on this thread.
The OP was saying that all the "damage" to his car was deliberate vandalism not just simple bad mannered door dings.
Tah was just addressing that aspect of the claim.
There are inconsiderate jerks that will bang their doors against your car everyplace. The sad part is that many may not even realize they did it so leaving notes or chasing them is pointless as they will simply think it wasn't them.
I get scared to death every time a SUV full of kids pull in bedside me as the doors can open at velocities I would not believe possible and kids have no concept of what can happen if they fling them open too far.

Who knows if it was deliberate, the OP can't say it for sure, but it happening multiple times in a week, with 1 of those being on the hood is definitely suspect.

I just feel that he should get proof, and then seek justice. As you said, there are tons of inconsiderate people who will ding your car out of carelessness, instead of spite.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Speeding

People there had told me that groups of guys walk up and down the street breaking into cars at night around midnight. The next night I decided to sleep in my car, .. with my .45.
.

Vigilante justice HOORAHHHH!
Not sure if you read all the posts on this thread or just picked and choose what you wanted to hear.
So you just run off and shoot yourself some bad guys and I will wait for the news reports of some innocent kid or some redneck with a gun getting killed.
In the mean time I will happily remain in a country where due process, proper investigation and innocent until proven guilty remain the norm not the exception.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77836

[RickyBobby]

Opinions aside, I'm sure everyone would like to know from the OP if there has been closure on this.