BRZ vs Mustang - Here is the review the haters have been waiting for.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its all out of hand but imo the zealots are the ones saying that the comparison with the mustang is a win even though it lost the objective tests

[Zealot mode on]

Let's see why we are calling it a win

Here's what they set out to find out in this video
"Like ford's iconic pony car, Subaru's new age coupe is one of the best driver's car you can buy for under $30,000. But is it a better driver's car than the Mustang?"

yadda yadda yadda some driving of both cars, some track times... and then we get the conclusion

"Raw numbers don't necessarily make a great driver's car. The little Subaru won't match the Mustang on the drag strip and proved a second and a half slower around Willow Springs during Randy's hotlap sessions. But the big Ford simply can't match the surgical precision and joyous feedback you get from the BRZ's steering, brakes, and chassis. If you love driving, if you love a car that will reward you for accuracy and smoothness, and yet let you play fast and loose when you want to, then the BRZ will have you grinning from ear to ear every time you gun that 2 liter boxer 4."

Seems like they thought the BRZ was the better driver's car to me, but then again I'm just a zealot 28 year old trance blasting moron

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

[Zealot mode on]

Let's see why we are calling it a win

Here's what they set out to find out in this video
"Like ford's iconic pony car, Subaru's new age coupe is one of the best driver's car you can buy for under $30,000. But is it a better driver's car than the Mustang?"

yadda yadda yadda some driving of both cars, some track times... and then we get the conclusion

"Raw numbers don't necessarily make a great driver's car. The little Subaru won't match the Mustang on the drag strip and proved a second and a half slower around Willow Springs during Randy's hotlap sessions. But the big Ford simply can't match the surgical precision and joyous feedback you get from the BRZ's steering, brakes, and chassis. If you love driving, if you love a car that will reward you for accuracy and smoothness, and yet let you play fast and loose when you want to, then the BRZ will have you grinning from ear to ear every time you gun that 2 liter boxer 4."

Seems like they thought the BRZ was the better driver's car to me, but then again I'm just a zealot 28 year old trance blasting moron

i think the issue is that the track really favors handling and the brz lost. also cant help but notice that the mustang can be had for so much cheaper. people have even had the gt for cheaper. that really isnt my point though. i have the issue when the brz wins this in the minds of people but then when another review says the megane is the better drivers car, they throw that comparsion out.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

[Zealot mode on]

Let's see why we are calling it a win

Here's what they set out to find out in this video
"Like ford's iconic pony car, Subaru's new age coupe is one of the best driver's car you can buy for under $30,000. But is it a better driver's car than the Mustang?"

yadda yadda yadda some driving of both cars, some track times... and then we get the conclusion

"Raw numbers don't necessarily make a great driver's car. The little Subaru won't match the Mustang on the drag strip and proved a second and a half slower around Willow Springs during Randy's hotlap sessions. But the big Ford simply can't match the surgical precision and joyous feedback you get from the BRZ's steering, brakes, and chassis. If you love driving, if you love a car that will reward you for accuracy and smoothness, and yet let you play fast and loose when you want to, then the BRZ will have you grinning from ear to ear every time you gun that 2 liter boxer 4."

Seems like they thought the BRZ was the better driver's car to me, but then again I'm just a zealot 28 year old trance blasting moron

I think there is difference between turning an objective loss into a subjective win, and realizing how close it is to a more powerful and better tired competitor and hoping that you share the drivers's enthusiasm when you get behind the wheel, despite being slower.

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Dimman

despite being slower.

Going faster and feeling like you're going faster are two separate and unrelated phenomenons. One is measured with a clock and one is measured by the smile on your face.

[Capt Canuck]

It'll be sooooooooo fucking great when folks actually have their cars, can pop their cherries and quit laboring over every last review that comes out for these cars :-)

It'll be a pleasant time full of sunshine, lolipops, and kittens... of course then the FI'd versions will come out and we can have another go 'round.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the issue is that the track really favors handling and the brz lost. also cant help but notice that the mustang can be had for so much cheaper. people have even had the gt for cheaper. that really isnt my point though. i have the issue when the brz wins this in the minds of people but then when another review says the megane is the better drivers car, they throw that comparsion out.

Lap times favor HP/torque and sticky tires. The Mustang won because it's more powerful with better tires and decent handling. The only point you could possibly count for the BRZ was even getting close(which just shows how silly the track comparison was).

The Mustang v6 that is getting track tested is the one that costs as much as the FRS(some people said you need to order one). You'd have to buy a late model year Mustang GT during a sale to get it at the same price of a BRZ Limited. Check the market prices.

If you care about lap times, there are better cars than the Twins.

Edit: Dagnabbit Dimman you posted before me.

[p911gt3]

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

It'll be sooooooooo fucking great when folks actually have their cars, can pop their cherries and quit laboring over every last review that comes out for these cars :-)

It'll be a pleasant time full of sunshine, lolipops, and kittens... of course then the FI'd versions will come out and we can have another go 'round.

Will we have competitions to see who can build their BRZ/FRS/86 to 745kwatts? Then we will be able to have a better comparison against godzillas!

But for real, we should have a pool on the time until the first 1000ps BRZ appears haha.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Lap times favor HP/torque and sticky tires. The Mustang won because it's more powerful with better tires and decent handling. The only point you could possibly count for the BRZ was even getting close(which just shows how silly the track comparison was).

The Mustang v6 that is getting track tested is the one that costs as much as the FRS(some people said you need to order one). You'd have to buy a late model year Mustang GT during a sale to get it at the same price of a BRZ Limited. Check the market prices.

If you care about lap times, there are better cars than the Twins.

Edit: Dagnabbit Dimman you posted before me.

well i have a full inbox thanks to truecar from dealers telling me they have a gt for me at less than these prices. one is even under 25k so...

im not trying to talk down the brz. i think/hope its an amazing car, im just saying that maybe that the best handling car of the year (or whetever they are saying )losing to the big fat solid axles mustang on a tight technical course probably isnt a win

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Going faster and feeling like you're going faster are two separate and unrelated phenomenons. One is measured with a clock and one is measured by the smile on your face.

I think there are a lot of people that may have that smile removed once those differences are shown to them by another car.

It's a matter of the fun feeling positive > the losing feeling negative.

And people have different thresholds for both.

A lot of people are not honest to themselves about how delicate their egos are...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well i have a full inbox thanks to truecar from dealers telling me they have a gt for me at less than these prices. one is even under 25k so...

im not trying to talk down the brz. i think/hope its an amazing car, im just saying that maybe that the best handling car of the year (or whetever they are saying )losing to the big fat solid axles mustang on a tight technical course probably isnt a win

That's great they are offering them at dealer cost. But you're comparing to used to new. Average price for a 2013 Mustang GT is closer to $29k.

Handling isn't going to make up for that much of a disadvantage. (I can keep saying this all day.)

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I think there are a lot of people that may have that smile removed once those differences are shown to them by another car.

It's a matter of the fun feeling positive > the losing feeling negative.

And people have different thresholds for both.

A lot of people are not honest to themselves about how delicate their egos are...

I had the opposite happen to me in my WRX and that's what sealed my decision to get a lightweight RWD car. I've started doing go kart leagues and after I get in my WRX after the go karts, I may as well be driving a city bus. It was a really a revelation to me and I understand that most people won't understand it, but I'd rather have a slow car with great handling than a big fast car. The WRX is fun in snow and gravel, but on pavement it is just boring and numb. To me the BRZ is a go kart for the street. Most people see numbers, 0-60 times, lap times 1/4 mile times, etc. as being what makes a car fun to drive. This is really not the case but there's no way to put a number on how fun a car is, so people will keep buying their cars based on numbers and not know what they're missing.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I think there are a lot of people that may have that smile removed once those differences are shown to them by another car.

It's a matter of the fun feeling positive > the losing feeling negative.

And people have different thresholds for both.

A lot of people are not honest to themselves about how delicate their egos are...

That's it. If all the 'get beaten by a minivan or lose to Hyundai sedan' comments have someone thinking, those folks should definitely get the Mustang.

Save the disappointment and negative equity, depreciation hit from trading in their FRS/BRZ.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

That's great they are offering them at dealer cost. But you're comparing to used to new. Average price for a 2013 Mustang GT is closer to $29k.

Handling isn't going to make up for that much of a disadvantage. (I can keep saying this all day.)

I assume he is comparing NEW 2012's still on the forecourt. They may be the outgoing model year, but they are not used.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

[Zealot mode on]

Let's see why we are calling it a win

Here's what they set out to find out in this video
"Like ford's iconic pony car, Subaru's new age coupe is one of the best driver's car you can buy for under $30,000. But is it a better driver's car than the Mustang?"

yadda yadda yadda some driving of both cars, some track times... and then we get the conclusion

"Raw numbers don't necessarily make a great driver's car. The little Subaru won't match the Mustang on the drag strip and proved a second and a half slower around Willow Springs during Randy's hotlap sessions. But the big Ford simply can't match the surgical precision and joyous feedback you get from the BRZ's steering, brakes, and chassis. If you love driving, if you love a car that will reward you for accuracy and smoothness, and yet let you play fast and loose when you want to, then the BRZ will have you grinning from ear to ear every time you gun that 2 liter boxer 4."

Seems like they thought the BRZ was the better driver's car to me, but then again I'm just a zealot 28 year old trance blasting moron

Thanks - that's exactly why most of us would call this a win.

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think the issue is that the track really favors handling and the brz lost. also cant help but notice that the mustang can be had for so much cheaper. people have even had the gt for cheaper. that really isnt my point though. i have the issue when the brz wins this in the minds of people but then when another review says the megane is the better drivers car, they throw that comparsion out.

If you want to compare a true handling track, just compare the Solo Classes that each respective car will be in: BRZ = C or D, Mustang = F. That means the Mustang will be quite a bit slower around a very tight handling track. But of course this doesn't mean anything to you because you believe that Streets of Willow Springs has somehow become the ultimate standard for determining how well a car handles, while ignoring the actual races/tracks that this car will be seen in.

Then again, race times are still a ridiculous metric because the Miata beats cars that are 10 times its price in Solo. Does this mean the Miata is the only car worth buying? Of course not. What's important is PREFERENCE and FEEL - and we tend to put some thought and weight into the words these reviewers are talking about instead of just a single lap time from a single track.

Spacey put it really well...

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Going faster and feeling like you're going faster are two separate and unrelated phenomenons. One is measured with a clock and one is measured by the smile on your face.