Why I’m Glad the 86 Came With No Turbo Trim: Still a Better Love Story Than Twilight

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Braces

If the 86 is relegated as the entry level 25K sportscar. The upcoming (who knows) FT-1 will be the middle level 50-60K car. What fits in the middle (30-40K)? A lexus? Curious if a boosted 86 could fit into that 30-40K arena. I guess the problem is Subaru .... but is that really Toyota's problem?

Sure it is. It's Subaru's assembly plant so at the end of the day Toyota needs their partners to play along, at least for the moment.

[vividracing]

Great point made here!

[Mim]

Totally agree with the OP. Really well written by the way


For the next gen, more than anything else, I'd be more interested in how much more weight can be removed from the base car than whether it might come with a boosted engine. Pulling 50kg out and slotting in a more aggressive diff ratio would be transformative and all without effecting the durability or price by much.


I recall reading interviews where it was mentioned they already have a pretty good idea of where some more weight can be pulled. Sorry I'd have to go for a bit of a dig and find the article.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by bodayguy

ARG. No one is arguing that the 86 should not have been offered as is, I am just saying they needed to plan a TRD/STi version with a turbo. Sort of like base Mustang, GT Mustang. Base Cayman, Cayman S. etc.

I am with Braces above: I am planning my next car purchase and as it stands, Toyota or Subie has nothing for me. The WRX should not compete with a Toyobaru sports car because that's a sedan with chunky styling. Different beast.

I don't think there was a business case for two versions. The Mustang sells so, so many more partially because even the V6 has a much broader market (it isn't tiny, it has heritage to draw from, and it is pretty much specifically designed with U.S. market tastes in mind). Both companies are pretty conservative when it comes to model variation.


Sent from Tandy 400

[phrosty]

Don't know how it is elsewhere, but my dealership admitted to me that their shop guys aren't as familiar with it simply because it's a Subie. I can see why Toyota wouldn't want to commit to even more variance until they got their own parts inside.

[GreenMonster]

Originally Posted by Braces

If the 86 is relegated as the entry level 25K sportscar.

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Subaru won't significantly improve it because that would compete with their WRX and STI

Yeah, it makes sense to keep the twins NA to keep the price point were it is now. If they add FI, it'll push the price over into WRX territory.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

And that shows the marketing disconnect I was talking about. If you hang out on this forum for a few months and actually read through it and the main thing that sticks out to you is "Let's put a lip kit and blue seats on it," then you have no idea what you're doing and shouldn't have your job. I'm willing to bet the guys at Heuberger Motors know more about what people want for this car than the actual manufacturers, because they're involved at this level.


edit: I don't think anyone has ever sat back on this forum and said "This car is awesome, but you know what it really needs? Blue seat inserts. That would be swell."

If you look at these forums you will find that there are a lot more people that do visual mods and simple bolt ons than there are that go FI or even get a tune. It makes perfect sense for Toyota and Subaru to release the Blue and RS 1.0 series because those cars come with the appearance pieces and features that most people are adding anyway.

It is easy and cheap for the manufactures to do uptrim models like that because there is no need for compliance testing like there is for engine upgrades, larger engines or FI engines from the factory.

The small percentage of buyers that want more displacement or FI are highly vocal. That does not mean that catering to that group will justify the development coat of doing so or make good business sense for the manufacturers.

[eddieflyinv]

I'm with OP, if it was FI from factory with a likely 30-40k list price it wouldn't have been a part of my new car consideration. It's affordable and awesome how it is,
I fully intend to supercharge it, I have a whole list of mods that I will do to the car , but the thing is I can take my time with that, do it how I want, and in the end it may come in at more that what a factory FI frs would cost, but I enjoy working on my cars, making them into what I want them to be, and it's a whole lot easier to do when it's easily and comfortably affordable, like if I need the money I'd spend modding for something else that comes up, then it's there, I can use it, but if I owe it to a financing company because my car came turboed and fast and expensive, then what? what do I do in that situation?

Leave it NA, those who want to make it faster can do so (we are the minority) those who think the factory slow NA car is unacceptable, then it clearly wasn't made for them, they can go look for a different car, and the ones who like it how it is (majority) can drive it how it is,
That's the beauty of a tuner/drivers car,

[ssyed]

Subaru offers this car in 3 trim levels with alcantara seats, dual climate control and exterior options. There's a difference of 4k from base BRZ to Aozora edition in canada.

Making another version with FI (forced induction) isn't difficult, they already have it in the WRX. All they have to do is fit it the 86.

About people doing FI themselves. You lose warranty. A lot more headache and you
can potentially blow your engine. There's a demand for FI from factory, as it would include warranty. Moreover, It may even eat up much more market share as a lot of people don't buy this car because of the lack of power.

About the cost. The new 2015 WRX, WITH turbo is $1300 cheaper in Canada than the unnecessary Aozora edition BRZ they just launched. I don't think people were hoping for blue seat stitching, STi logo, a lipkit, all with a price jump, as much as they were hoping for FI.

This car is near perfect. The only thing missing is a bit more power. Base WRX to base BRZ, there's a difference of $2600. Why did this car not come with the same powertrain as the wrx?!??

As some people are happy to pay extra for cosmetics with alcantara seats and dual climate control. I would be happy, along with many others, to pay a slight premium for a FI option from factory

Let's not kid ourselves 150ish WHP(stock) as the only option in a car that's capable of handling a lot more is a little disappointing.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ssyed

Subaru offers this car in 3 trim levels with alcantara seats, dual climate control and exterior options. There's a difference of 4k from base BRZ to Aozora edition in canada.

Making another version with FI isn't difficult they already have it in the WRX. All they have to do is fit it the 86. So I don't see why they couldn't offer another version, with cost to the buyer, with FI from factory with warranty. There's a demand for it. It would eat up much more market share.

About the cost. The new 2015 WRX, WITH FI is $1300 cheaper in canada than the unnecessary Aozora edition BRZ they just launched.

This car is near perfect. The only thing missing is a bit more power. Base WRX to base BRZ, there's a difference of $2600. Why did this car not come with the same powertrain as the wrx?!??

As some people are happy to pay extra for cosmetics with alcantara seats and dual climate control. I would be happy, along with many others, to pay a slight premium for a FI option from factory

Let's not kid ourselves 150ish WHP(stock) as the only option in a car that's capable of handling a lot more is a little disappointing.

Unfortunately is not as simple as just slapping a FI on wiping their hands and calling it a day. The car will still need to meet all the emission control requirements, be completely tested against all government standards and other components changed/reinforced for the increase. Just check out the tech threads on what just 300hp can do to stock axles and trannys! The cars was designed to handle the current HP and that is it.
We did not get Evos in Canada until the X model due to government requirements. It was banned for the simple fact that the intercoolers could not survive the 20kph crash test without raising the repair costs to above the government max. When they redesigned for 08 they were finally able to pass that one simple stumbling block and bring them in.
I get where you are coming from on what seems to be a minor difference in costs between the current configurations and older platforms such as the WRX but to bring in a new FI Twin would actually cost a whole lot more.
Would some pay it? No doubt.
Would enough to make it economically feasible for the manufacturer? Probably not as they are in business to make money not cater to our desires.

[lastexile1987]

I think saying doing the research and development to put out another trim with fi would be "not difficult" is oversimplifying the process a little bit. There are numerous posts in this thread as to why it most likely has not happened. Read over those and see if it still does not make sense and if you still disagree then you disagree and there is nothing we can do about that. Wish and pray to the toyobaru gods and maybe eventually a fi version may come out (not saying its impossible) but for now the only option is to do it yourself. Even if Toyota and subaru started to work on a fi version of the 86, it would be a year until it came out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by lastexile1987

I think saying doing the research and development to put out another trim with fi would be "not difficult" is oversimplifying the process a little bit. There are numerous posts in this thread as to why it most likely has not happened. Read over those and see if it still does not make sense and if you still disagree then you disagree and there is nothing we can do about that. Wish and pray to the toyobaru gods and maybe eventually a fi version may come out (not saying its impossible) but for now the only option is to do it yourself. Even if Toyota and subaru started to work on a fi version of the 86, it would be a year until it came out.

I would be willing to bet they have been working on it since before the car was even released.
Where people seem to miss the point is they will not actually do anything with it until they can make money from it.
They are not a charity, goodwill ambassador or fairy godmother but a for profit business that needs to ensure they will make money before they do a thing!
I work for a company that makes brake rotors and we are working on trying to develop rotors for 2017 models that meet the OEM specs and price point. The difference of 3 or 4 cents per part can make or break the deal. That is three years away and we are talking one small part of the vehicle!

[Trackrat86]

I love this car just the way it is, prior to this car I was a long time Mazda MX-5 enthusiast and I don't regret the platform change one bit. In fact if this car had been a turbo I would have not purchased it. I also own a BMW 135I with twin turbo and its more trouble than its worth. I only track the FR-S now. Still have the Mazda & BMW collecting dust in my garage. My only concern for this car is its long term reliability.

[airjonny]

There is a valid point to be made tho: If people are willing to drop 5k more for a RS with paint and TRD goodies, why wouldn't people do the same for a turbo? There are alot of smart people at Toyobaru. You mean to tell me they can't shoehorn that WRX engine in there? How much R&D is needed to do that?