FRS track car feeler

[philooo]

I wanted to get some input on the value of my FRS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77029

I may be tempted to sell it as I have an opportunity on another nice track car.

Tell me what you think it may be worth. $20k ?

[CSG Mike]

The salvage title hurts the value quite a bit.

[ddeflyer]

Kelly blue book on that car in good condition is only 18K and the salvage title takes a good chunk off of that IFF it was brought to fair condition.

Add onto that that this is a caged car so realistically it should be trailered to the track AND you haven't done much other improvements for track worthiness (and I mean the hard stuff like suspension work, etc) AND this car doesn't have any race winning history AND that there could be unknown crash damage (only one track day to test it) AND you are having the car built by people who don't appear to have alot of history in building race wining cars AND there is some association with fa20club...

I doubt you would get anywhere near to 20K out of it. I could be wrong, but I really, really doubt it.

[Reaper]

12,000 at most. Tires, brakes, mileage dependant.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by philooo

I wanted to get some input on the value of my FRS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77029

I may be tempted to sell it as I have an opportunity on another nice track car.

Tell me what you think it may be worth. $20k ?

A bunch of semi-random thoughts on this subject generally...

From my perspective, this is how this works:

1) A buyer who has done his homework will want the car to be looked over by a competent race shop, probably one he's already been doing business with or one with a top-flight reputation.

2) The shop will evaluate the existing status of the car, and it will then list and estimate the cost of the parts and systems required to finish the car for the series for which it will be built. If it won't be raced or TT'd, then the estimate will be for a build to the buyer's specs.

3) To cover unexpected occurrences, changes of mind by the buyer, and all the other things that inevitably drive the build cost higher, the buyer may then add as much as 1/4 to 1/3 to the shop's estimate.

4) He will then compare the total with how much he would have to pay for other track cars that are available at the time he's looking to buy.

Note that many track car and race car owners do their own work to reduce the expense of this hobby, and they'll work up their own numbers, often with help from other racers/owners.

I use $25-30K as a general rule of thumb, and ask myself how much car I can buy for that amount of money. In the Northeast, you can get a good car in that price range - one ready to run reliably and competitively in its class. Examples are older BMWs (what I know best) and higher-end Miatas. There are many others as well.

These cars have been debugged, all the flaws in the original chassis and systems have been taken care of, the bushings and bearings are still serviceable, the wheels are good, the compression and leakdown numbers are satisfactory, the dates on the chair(s), belts and nets haven't expired, etc., etc. - basically, the cars are ready for the new buyer to run them and start maintaining them himself.

I look at a car like yours and see a number much lower than $20K. Using a shop to do my work as I do, I can see a quick $15-20K going into your car to get it ready. It's a good example of why experienced owners so frequently tell drivers just getting into this hobby to buy used instead of building from scratch.

However, you'd be surprised at how many drivers feel they can build cheaper than they can buy. Sometimes they think this because they don't have the money to buy a built car, or maybe it's that they're able and/or willing to do their own work, and sometimes they just haven't considered the relative cost to do it both ways. Of course, some owners want a car they built themselves, regardless of the issue of expense.

To me, that's your market, and it's generally an extremely price sensitive one. When people talk about how this car will take off as a race/track car once the price drops below $10K or so, this is one type of owner that they're thinking about.

Another alternative is shops that build cars for customers. You could try shopping it around to builders who might have customers looking to have a car built for them. I think the FR-S suffers there because it's still a bit of an odd duck: no race history, no club series devoted to it, and still with a lot of unkowns about how it will hold up to extreme use.

-------

If I was in the market for it, knowing what I now know, a scientific wild-ass guess is that I'd pay $8K-9K for it. That's if there were no surprises in the shop's report on its condition and suitability for the build. You'll likely do better.

[Dave-ROR]

It's basically a stock rebuilt title car with a cage that isn't perfect (even a poorly done nodal point in one pic). 10-15k at most.

[OkieSnuffBox]

These guys all pretty much nailed it.


Although I don't see the salvage title being that big of a deal for a caged track car (although it does still hurt the value), the lack of any other real prep does.


Cars like these have a VERY narrow market. So be prepared to wait a while for the right buyer AND sell for pennies on the dollar.

[philooo]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Even a poorly done nodal point in one pic

Can you elaborate on the cage nodal point ? I am curious to ear your feedback opinion on the cage build as I may end up keeping the car and building it more.

[philooo]

You can check my update on the for sale thread. I have updated the sale price to $16k to fit the overall feedback.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by philooo

Can you elaborate on the cage nodal point ? I am curious to ear your feedback opinion on the cage build as I may end up keeping the car and building it more.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1415065622


The cross bar should meet at the same point as the middle nascar door bar (stronger, the current way isn't "wrong" it's just not as good as it could be). Also looks like the cross bar is bent near the top over the drive, but that might be the picture. I wish they boxed in the back to use the additional sheet metal there, but that's not required.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

These guys all pretty much nailed it.


Although I don't see the salvage title being that big of a deal for a caged track car (although it does still hurt the value), the lack of any other real prep does.


Cars like these have a VERY narrow market. So be prepared to wait a while for the right buyer AND sell for pennies on the dollar.

Yeah, a very limited market (trailer only effectively) with unknown repair history and not built to any race class. Overall that's just a really hard sell.


Sadly, if you build it for a specific class, you'll just lose more money overall.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1415065622


The cross bar should meet at the same point as the middle nascar door bar (stronger, the current way isn't "wrong" it's just not as good as it could be). Also looks like the cross bar is bent near the top over the drive, but that might be the picture. I wish they boxed in the back to use the additional sheet metal there, but that's not required.

I've never seen a diagonal cross bar bend like that? It's as if they realized the bar wasn't going to line up with the side hoop where it connects to the main hoop, and simply did a bend to make it align. Should pass tech for most sanctioning bodies (maintains the same plane as a the main hoop), unless in their GCR it says anything about bends in the diagonal brace.

I think $13k would be a fair asking price. I'm sure as you've seen on racingjunk.com and other sites with fully built race cars, they're getting pennies on the dollar for what they have into them.

[rice_classic]

I saw this posted on the NASA forums. If it was a fully prepped race car for a specific class and had been run in that class then the salvage title doesn't have much affect on the price. But since none of that has taken place, then it does for the reasons already mentioned in this thread.

I think it's a bit expensive. Part of the reason is that it's not "done". It's a still a project car at this point so you're not selling someone something that's complete, you're selling a project and taken into account is the cost of the buyer to finish said project.

BUT! The value of anything is exactly what someone is willing to give you for it. It doesn't hurt to post it around @18k and if you get attention at that price then great, if nothing else it gives you a good platform to negotiate from.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

I'm sure as you've seen on racingjunk.com and other sites with fully built race cars, they're getting pennies on the dollar for what they have into them.

This is the reality of selling a built car. Exceptions are uncommon.

It's another reason to buy built, as you may as well take advantage of this economic reality at the beginning given that you'll be suffering from it when you eventually sell.