FR-S vs. BMW Z4 and Miata MX5

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Originally Posted by Twin4Life

LOL @ a 10 year old Z4.

Fantastic cars, my dad had a Z4M, very fun drivers car, loves to rev, but it will bite when you reach the limit.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Twin4Life

LOL @ a 10 year old Z4.

You think the current Z4 is a better driver's car?

How old is an S2000?

[reni]

Interesting write-up. I've always wanted one of the previous gen Z4 coupes, although yeah, it's definitely more of a GT car compared to the 86.

[imom]

Having owned a Z4MR and driven several Z4MC, I would say the M handles better than the FT86 even though it's lighter. Suspension is more stiff with the M and you have way more torque above the 4K range. The Z4 3.0SI I had was an 07 and I would say also slightly better to equal that of BRZ. S2000 as a passenger was okay...just like BRZ not much power.

The winner for the BRZ is the fuel economy and being newer less maintenance. BMW are costly to own...pay to play. The brakes w/ rotors alone are about $1200 in parts.

Comparing to an 05...I don't think gives the Z4 a lot of justice. Take my comparison with a little grain of salt. The Ms had more power so I was able to push it more, the BRZ is wimpy so I don't redline my cars so goes a bit more slower plus the prius tires and brakes doesn't inspire me to really push the car. The M you can have a ball and still be safe given you are responsible enough to drive with safety in mind when on the street.

Z4M has much wider tires, brakes, and power than the BRZ...I'm talking stock vs stock. My Z4 3.0SI had M sport package which I believe wasn't available in 05.. I believe it's really two different cars comparing 05 to 07 SI with M sport. The best thing about the Ms is the fat steering wheel and hydraulic steering.

I appreciate the OP for posting a new comparison...just wanted to give my feedback on the later E85 and E86 platforms Z4. I may switch up cars in a year or two...but I"m okay with BRZ being daily driver.

Congrats on your FRS...how's the tranny feel for you...curious if the 2015 have improved?

[Twin4Life]

Originally Posted by abraxis

You think the current Z4 is a better driver's car?

How old is an S2000?

Doubt it, feckin' Money Pit waiting to happen though.

How old is an S2000? I dunno, they made them from '99 to like '09 I think,

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Texas BRZ

Also agree that our engine feels of more torque. Off the line, the MX-5 feels a bit more quicker, possibly due to the lower weight as well... But who cares about straight line speed in these cars anyway?

Really? The Miata engine (I owned an NC for 18 months) has way more down low grunt and mid-range.


The BRZ is the one that's high strung, it's got plenty enough to get around town, but doesn't really get moving until 4500RPMs or so, while the Miata starts to run out of breath about where the FA20 hits peak torque.


But even the stock sport suspension on my 2006 was terrible. It was comfy on the road, but floppy and ill mannered when pushing hard.


Unlike the other Miata I used to own:

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by imom

Z4M has much wider tires..

The best thing about the Ms is the fat steering wheel and hydraulic steering.

The newer M's have massively wide tires. Tons of rubber on the road. You have to get a Corvette to go even wider.

Actually a friend of mine and myself both hate the skin slasher stitching on the M steering wheels.

I became wary of the BMW Z's after the Z3's cracked their chassis.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Shifter is the difference between a transmission mounted shifter and a remote shifter. I've heard that stiffening up the transmission mount and possibly the rest of the shifter bushings helps, but it doesn't bother me enough to perform the upgrades myself.


Engine, yeah, the Miata engine is certainly more high strung and linear. I find the twins have quite a bit more torque so I don't have to rev it out all the time. The Miata feels faster but it's not even close


No idea on brakes as I haven't tracked either car. Then again I'm coming primarily from a MKIII Supra which is ~1000lbs heavier than the BRZ or Miata and has brakes that aren't much bigger than either...


When I did the initial test drive for the BRZ, I noticed it feels a lot like Miata with suspension mods, but rides nicer. YMMV

I gotta fully disagree with your "have quite a bit more torque"... like the guy above me said, these FA20s don't have much for grunt until 4k+, while the Miata starts to fall off around that same interval

These things barely have any torque at all given the CHP.

And is it just me, or is a Miata not even close to the twins in terms of styling? The Miata just screams late 80s, early 90s to me. Perhaps it's because I grew up in the 90s and remembered how bland and blah the cars were during those early years

[Texas BRZ]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Really? The Miata engine (I owned an NC for 18 months) has way more down low grunt and mid-range.


The BRZ is the one that's high strung, it's got plenty enough to get around town, but doesn't really get moving until 4500RPMs or so, while the Miata starts to run out of breath about where the FA20 hits peak torque.


But even the stock sport suspension on my 2006 was terrible. It was comfy on the road, but floppy and ill mannered when pushing hard.


Unlike the other Miata I used to own:

I owned a 2011 MX-5 Touring for about 6 months and tracked it for about 4-5 two day events while also daily driving it... Before trading it in for a '13 FR-S and doing the same with it. So I can only speak from the limited experience I was fortunate enough to run into.

Maybe it's the nature of the boxer, but it had a stronger feel overall. Off the line, I can't say for sure if it was the engine or the lower curb weight of the MX-5 which made it respond quicker. I was only thinking it was due to the lower weight. About the torquey feel, it's only my opinion that the boxer has a bit stronger pull... After really pushing the car at the track. And I'm trying my best to be unbiased despite hoping to become a future BRZ owner in a few weeks.

I understand your perspective though, and I'm open to one thinking differently.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Koa

And is it just me, or is a Miata not even close to the twins in terms of styling?

Not just you. The Miata most reminds me of old MG or Alfa roadster meets Hello Kitty. I like the side profile of the new one a lot, but think the front is too S2K wannabee with squinty headlights. The rear F-type rip-off lights are ugly as sin and look like they were photoshopped on the butt.

[mhughett]

I had both a 2007 Z4 3.0si coupe (for one year) as well as a 2007 Z4M Coupe for 3 years. The 3.0si coupe had the sport pkg so it had the same 255 18" tires as the M did. Both cars were much faster than the BRZ. The 0-60 times were about 5.5 and 4.9 sec, respectively. Since they were inline 6 engines, both were very smooth although the M was a little more raucous and had an 8,000 RPM redline. As far as the steering and handling, the 3.0si had an early version of EPS and it did not have near the "feel" that the M car had with the traditional hydraulic system. On the track, the M car was a handful and wanted to swing its tail out occasionally. It wouldn't drift all that well because of the wide rear tires but it would unexpectedly just lose grip at the limit. Despite the fact that the M car had upgraded brakes, I didn't find them to be all that great.


I'm looking forward to taking the BRZ out to the track next month to compare to these other cars. My first impressions are that the steering is more precise on the BRZ, the gearing is shorter and I'll have to stay at the top of the rpm range to get the most out of the car. I just hope the brakes and the rest of the car are as sturdy as the M car and my TT-RS when taken to the track.

[imom]

Originally Posted by abraxis

The newer M's have massively wide tires. Tons of rubber on the road. You have to get a Corvette to go even wider.

Actually a friend of mine and myself both hate the skin slasher stitching on the M steering wheels.

I became wary of the BMW Z's after the Z3's cracked their chassis.

Z3 are super light and not as stiff compared to Z4 E85/E86...especially the coupe. Z3M with the S54 engine is suppose to be crazy because it's same 330HP with the lighter chassis...but again also flexes. E85 was very good especially once you put a strut bar. E86 now is more expensive and desirable for track reasons hence they cost more now being coupe even though convertible cost more new. E86 also more rare.

Regarding the steering wheel... The E85/E86 M steering is what I am talking about...there's no skin slasher at all at least I never had an issue. It is the best steering wheel I ever felt...most likely a Momo steering made to BMW spec.

Other thing I wanted to mention was the Z4 that OP mention was probably non staggered wheels. The M sport package had staggered wheels I never rotated the tires on these cards...you just balance and drive them until they are worn.

So the best thing about the 86 platform is handling based on wet noodle drivetrain and suspension. It's really amazing what they did to make the car handle well with prius tires and all the skinny wimpy parts. But makes maintenance easier for daily driving.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Koa

I gotta fully disagree with your "have quite a bit more torque"... like the guy above me said, these FA20s don't have much for grunt until 4k+, while the Miata starts to fall off around that same interval

These things barely have any torque at all given the CHP.

And is it just me, or is a Miata not even close to the twins in terms of styling? The Miata just screams late 80s, early 90s to me. Perhaps it's because I grew up in the 90s and remembered how bland and blah the cars were during those early years

No idea about the engine in the NC (haven't driven one), but the FA20 pulls much harder down low than the NA/NB motor.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by mhughett

I just hope the brakes and the rest of the car are as sturdy as the M car and my TT-RS when taken to the track.

Doubtful. Not sure how you drive but fade and melted seals could be in your future. Stock tires?

Originally Posted by imom

Regarding the steering wheel... The E85/E86 M steering is what I am talking about...there's no skin slasher at all at least I never had an issue. It is the best steering wheel I ever felt...most likely a Momo steering made to BMW spec.

Looks like the same abrasive stitching I've usually experienced. Possible to be Momo, but to be honest in my experience Momo usually has lots of segments and seams with poor quality work when scrutinized. That looks better than the typical Momo wheel.





I prefer the LFA and CT200H steering wheels myself.





458 is my favorite though for overall ergonomics and function. Definitely looks like Momo leatherwork.