A Car Noobs Hopeful Reality: Forced Induction

[Boofneenee]

The purpose of this thread is to help me decide if going FI is a sound move for someone with my limited, mechanical knowledge and budget. This posting does not mark the beginning of my considering such an overwhelming project and I have been reading and reading and reading up on what going FI means for my car, budget and sanity. I like to use the word sanity because I worry about everything and freak out over small knock corrections I observe in my data lag today with only a Stage 2 NA setup. This obsessive need to lose sleep over every little thing here and there is what ultimately allows me to educate myself and find solutions or answers to my concerns. Sadly its how I operate most of my life but it allows me to get things done.

Truthfully, I have very VERY little experience working with cars. To date I have only installed a CAI, Phantom supercharger, oil change, wheels and that's about it. I had my exhaust parts put on not because I don't believe I cant do it but I am limited with my tools. Having said that if I do go FI I promised myself that I absolutely, positively must install it myself. Why? because I need to know how to take it apart, put it back together and troubleshoot problems when the occur. And from my research something almost always goes wrong. Therefore I will borrow or acquire tools for the install. I do not want to be paying a mechanic for every problem with will occur.

In regards to a budget I could see myself spending a total of 4k initially. Over time I expect to burn through more money but I hope not to. This means that I am looking for something really affordable and /or even used. I am not after big power. I had the Phantom and while I had issues with its no partial boost, and numbing feeling created because of the restriction I felt the power was good enough. I am not going to upgrading fuel injectors and I really hope I wont have to get a better clutch.

I understand that a tune is perhaps the most crucial and important aspect of going FI. Having said that I live on the east coast and I am not aware of any competent tuners near me. They all seem to operate in Cali. I use the OFT and love it. Shivs base maps (although very limited for FI applications) inspire confidence for me and their customer service is second to none. If I had to leave for a different platform I would be content simply using a base map that came with whatever FI platform it came with. That is until I can find a tuner who I feel is knowledgeable enough to custom tune my car. I feel a lot of these base maps (AVO base map, Shivs Base maps, Innovative base map) are sufficient enough for stage 1 FI which is all I plan to do. Again I am not after big power.

I am torn between SC and Turbo. I have read that SC's are easier to maintain but would like to believe a proper turbo should suffice.

in a picture perfect world I imagine myself buying a kit, installing it in a day or two, flashing the tune and driving for thousands of miles without any issues. I dont track, i dont beat on my car I simply enjoy spirited driving from time to time.

What issues have you face? what additional components have you had to purchase? Oil cooler? Catch can? clutch? Issues with piping not mating or mis-fitment, disconnecting? Are my expectations unrealistic? should I give up now on the FI dream or keep reading and waiting until the dust settles and something that meets my requirements will surface?

[cdrazic93]

With budget alone, it's not possible. That's straining a S/C setup, turbo options are in the relm of 5k+ for all the reliable goodies. My advice is to wait and figure out how much you need forced induction, and how much you're willing to spend. there are other ways to make your car atleast feel fast.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

With budget alone, it's not possible. That's straining a S/C setup, turbo options are in the relm of 5k+ for all the reliable goodies. My advice is to wait and figure out how much you need forced induction, and how much you're willing to spend. there are other ways to make your car atleast feel fast.

but why? the SBD turbo kit was pricing for like $3500, the new works is around $3300. their is a used Innovative SC w/ inter cooler for around 4 k on the forums What additional expenses am I overlooking that you did not mention?

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Truthfully, I have very VERY little experience working with cars. To date I have only installed a CAI, Phantom supercharger, oil change, wheels and that's about it.

I'm confused. Have you installed a supercharger already or not?

Seriously though, if you are this worried about shit going sideways then going FI is probably not for you.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by jvincent

I'm confused. Have you installed a supercharger already or not?

Seriously though, if you are this worried about shit going sideways then going FI is probably not for you.

I didn't care much the phantom but its not a real sc so install is not the same. Yes I freak out but that's my nature. I refuse to believe their are not FI setups out there that are resonsible and safe with a good tune.

[woode]

If you have limited knowledge, be prepared to spend A LOT of money. Set aside the install and tuning, chances are there will be lots of little quirks that pop up. If you don't have the knowledge to diagnose stuff on your own and know what type of stuff to monitor and look out for, you are going to be paying a premium for somebody else to do it.

Even if you have pretty good knowedge and mechanical ability, it will still cost you a good bit. You can get it done for $5k, but I'd recommend actually buying quality parts (IE PTuning, P&L, FBM, ...) to avoid shit going wrong and costing you more later.

You can find examples ranging from shitty tuned cars making 450hp that actually ran for months, to cars throwing a rod in parking lots with supposedly good tunes making 230hp. If you aren't prepared to possibly have your car down and it costing you thousands, don't bother.

"Buy once, cry once." and "You gotta pay to play." are mottos to live by when it comes to modding cars.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

but why? the SBD turbo kit was pricing for like $3500, the new works is around $3300. their is a used Innovative SC w/ inter cooler for around 4 k on the forums What additional expenses am I overlooking that you did not mention?

You're forgeting dyno time, and all the extra goodies and such (like gauges and catch cans) not to mention oil coolers aren't going to cost $700 total.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

You're forgeting dyno time, and all the extra goodies and such (like gauges and catch cans) not to mention oil coolers aren't going to cost $700 total.

Good point. Question. Do I need catch cans and oil coolers with lower power FI? Are base maps that come with these kits not safe enough for the long run? Do I have to get a custom tune sooner than later?

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Good point. Question. Do I need catch cans and oil coolers with lower power FI? Are base maps that come with these kits not safe enough for the long run? Do I have to get a custom tune sooner than later?

The answer I got from SBD about oil coolers is that all turbo cars from the factory come with one for a reason. As for the base maps my understanding is they're all supposed to be temporary to get you to the tuner.

[woode]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Good point. Question. Do I need catch cans and oil coolers with lower power FI? Are base maps that come with these kits not safe enough for the long run? Do I have to get a custom tune sooner than later?

All the questions you are asking have been answered, in detail, many times before. Honestly, you need to research this.
Base maps are designed for you to be able to drive your car to the tuner or log specific driving patterns for your tuner to send revised maps.

Pro search tip: go to google and type "site:www.ft86club.com" at the end of your search.
i.e. "base map drivability site:www.ft86club.com"

Repeat the process for oil coolers, catch cans, all the different turbo and supercharger kits your interested in, exhaust systems, tuning, how various parts work, etc. And then, when you have specific questions - ask away.

Every other day someone makes a post just like yours saying they don't know what kit to get, and that they want one that is reliable, they want ease of installation, etc, etc, etc. People get tired of spoon feeding the answers to those who don't bother trying to research themselves.

[Whatabouteggs]

If you're asking for the grand total of FI information to be dumped at your feet, you're on the wrong forum. These are N/A cars that have only been around for three model years, and that kind of knowledge just doesn't exist yet.

If you want to learn about FI, read some books, go to NASIOC, go to cars and coffee and ask around, watch Mighty car mods, something. The internet is amazing but you can't outsource everything.

[woode]

One last bit:

The car is designed for 200hp. If you're looking for a problem-free, turn-key solution that is fully planned out then you should be looking at a factory turbo'd car or similar. Used Porsche Cayman, 370z, Miata, S2000, etc. Can you get the 86 to that point and better? Certainly. But it's a lot of work, and generally not worth the money if you're paying somebody else to do it.

Half the fun for most of us is working on the car, planning it out, driving it, breaking it, fixing it, etc..

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by woode

One last bit:

The car is designed for 200hp. If you're looking for a problem-free, turn-key solution that is fully planned out then you should be looking at a factory turbo'd car or similar. Used Porsche Cayman, 370z, Miata, S2000, etc. Can you get the 86 to that point and better? Certainly. But it's a lot of work, and generally not worth the money if you're paying somebody else to do it.

Half the fun for most of us is working on the car, planning it out, driving it, breaking it, fixing it, etc..

^

My car survived a load of abuse this season boosted (200+ autox runs, 20k miles, 7 track days). With no issue other than blowing out the primary cat in the header.

That said. Im expecting to eventually have to pull the engine after some sort of failure.

[solus]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

Good point. Question. Do I need catch cans and oil coolers with lower power FI? Are base maps that come with these kits not safe enough for the long run? Do I have to get a custom tune sooner than later?

I don't have an oil cooler... but I also don't track my car, its my daily. I'm only running 8psi on my AVO. Drove it from Seattle to San Diego in 3 days in 100 degree weather with a detour up to Reno and some altitude, no issue...

Its debatable if oil coolers are "needed" for a DD... from my experience I haven't needed it yet.

I do have a catch can though... probably a good idea to get that though.

You won't be able to do it for $4k unless you possibly install it yourself. Also, your exhaust you have now is limiting your potential power output. S/C might be cheaper though

Trust me I just did this... I didn't have the time (was moving to San Diego in 30 days plus working 12 hrs a day) and didn't have the trust in my skills to do it myself correctly and timely. I can tell you it is expensive... especially since I went from completely stock to boosted. I did it all at once, turbo, CC, full exhaust, dyno tune, ecutek, and clutch. Not cheap... I won't say how much but